ROUGHLY EDITED FILE
             TECHNOLOGY ACCESSIBILITY MEETING
                     NOVEMBER 9, 2010
      CENTENNIAL BUILDING, BLAZING STAR CONFERENCE ROOM
                      2:00 - 4:10 P.M.
CART PROVIDED BY: ANGIE SUNDELL, RPR, CRR, CBC, CCP
PARADIGM REPORTING & CAPTIONING INC.
1400 RAND TOWER
527 MARQUETTE AVENUE SOUTH
MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 55402-1331
* 612-339-0545 * 800-545-9668 * FAX: 612-337-5575
                     *  *  *  *  *
   THIS FILE IS BEING PROVIDED IN A ROUGH-DRAFT
   FORMAT. COMMUNICATION ACCESS REALTIME TRANSLATION
   (CART) IS PROVIDED IN ORDER TO FACILITATE
   COMMUNICATION ACCESSIBILITY AND MAY NOT BE A
   TOTALLY VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS.

                        * * * *
            FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY
>> GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY.
WE'RE GOING TO KICK THIS OFF.
WELCOME TO EVERYONE.
I'M MOLLY EMMING, I'M WITH FREDERICKSON COMMUNICATIONS.
WE HOLD THESE INTERSECT MEETINGS QUARTERLY, AND I KNOW
THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL OF YOU THAT ARE HERE FOR THE
FIRST TIME, SO I JUST WANT TO DO A QUICK INTRODUCTION
ABOUT FREDERICKSON AND ABOUT INTERSECT.
OVER THE PAST TEN YEARS OR SO, OUR WORK WITH THE STATE,
COUNTY AND CITIES HAVE BEEN PRIMARILY WITH USABILITY
AND WEB ANALYSIS AND DESIGN AND AS WE WERE WORKING WITH
THESE TEAMS, WE SAW A NEED TO HELP COMMUNICATIONS AND
TECHNOLOGY PEOPLE CONNECT.
WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION BEING PUT OUT ON THE WEB
RATHER THAN ON PAPER OR OTHER FORMS OF MEDIA.
SO ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, AS A PART OF FREDERICKSON'S
MISSION TO SHARE INFORMATION, WE STARTED THE INTERSECT
GROUP.
ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO, WE ALSO STARTED AN INTERSECT
GROUP ON LINKEDIN AND THERE YOU CAN CONTINUE
DISCUSSIONS THAT START IN THIS ROOM TODAY OR YOU CAN
START NEW ONES, ASK QUESTIONS, GET ADVICE FROM YOUR
PEERS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS COMPLETELY
FINE.
THERE'S NO FEE FOR INTERSECT MEMBERSHIP.
WE JUST ASK THAT YOU PERIODICALLY STEP FORWARD TO
SPEAK, LIKE TANYA IS DOING TODAY.
OR TO PROVIDE MEETING SPACE BECAUSE WE REALLY RELY ON
THE VOLUNTEERS TO DO THIS.
THIS IS COMPLETELY BUDGET-FREE GROUP.
AND AS FAR AS TODAY'S MEETING IS CONCERNED, AS YOU KNOW
FROM THE INVITATION, TANYA BELANGER IS A SENIOR PROJECT
CONSULTANT WITH THE OFFICE OF ENTERPRISE TECHNOLOGY.
SHE'S WORKING ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW
TECHNOLOGY ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS, WHICH I KNOW YOU'RE
ALL WELL AWARE OF.
SHE'LL BE GIVING US AN INTRO TO CREATING ACCESSIBLE
DOCUMENTS AND PRESENTATIONS.
THISSIVE TO SAY, IS OUR MOST POPULAR SESSION TO DATE.
WE HAD ABOUT ANOTHER 20 OR 25 PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO BE
HERE TODAY, AND I'M GLAD THAT TANYA WILL BE DOING SOME
ADDITIONAL SESSIONS SO THAT OTHERS CAN GET THIS
INFORMATION FROM HER.
WE'LL END PROMPTLY AT 4:00.
BUT TANYA CAN STAY UNTIL ABOUT 5:00 TO ANSWER ANY
ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, HELP WITH ANY PRACTICE THAT YOU
WANT TO DO.
WE HAVE A LAB -- OH.
[ DOGS GROWLING ]
WE HAVE A LAB RESERVED NEXT DOOR SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY
PRACTICE IF YOU LIKE.
WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT ROOM, TANYA.
>> Tanya: RIGHT HERE, THE LOON ROOM.
>> OKAY.
THE LOON ROOM.
I WANT TO ASK EVERYBODY TO PLEASE SPEAK UP WHEN YOU'RE
ASKING QUESTIONS AND HAVING DISCUSSION, WITH THE
VARIOUS FORMS OF COMMUNICATION WE HAVE IN THE ROOM, WE
HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET EVERYTHING DOCUMENTED,
EVERYTHING OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN UNDERSTAND
WHAT'S BEING SAID.
AND, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE HAVE SOME CARDS THAT SHOW
THE VARIOUS DATES OF OUR 2011 INTERSECT MEETINGS AND
WHAT THIS GROUP IS ALL ABOUT.
THEY'RE BACK ON THE TABLE BY THE NAME TAGS, IF YOU WANT
TO GRAB ONE ON THE WAY OUT IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN
MARKING YOUR CALENDARS, PLEASE DO.
AND BIG THANK YOU TO TANYA.
WITH THAT, I'M PASSING IT OVER.
 [ APPLAUSE ]
>> Tanya: HELLO.
GOOD AFTERNOON.
AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TO O.E.T. TODAY FOR
THIS MEETING.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PRESENTATION ON ACCESSIBILITY,
AND THE FOCUS OF THE DAY IS REALLY TALKING ABOUT
DOCUMENTS.
AND I'D REALLY LIKE TO NARROW IT DOWN TO WORD
DOCUMENTS.
P.D.F.s, WHILE THEY'RE AN ISSUE AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT
THAT IN OUR DISCUSSION AS FAR AS A LOT OF THE
INFORMATION THAT I'M GOING TO PRESENT TODAY, I'M NOT
GOING TO GO SO MUCH INTO P.D.F.s, SIMPLY BECAUSE,
LIKE I BET YOU GUYS ALREADY KNOW, FROM YOUR WORK
EXPERIENCE, IT'S COMPLICATED TO MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE
P.D.F.
AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND
THE BASICS BEFORE GETTING INTO THE OTHER DETAILS.
JUST FOR A QUESTION, HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE ROOM HAVE
ALREADY STARTED TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CREATE
ACCESSIBLE DOCUMENTS?
EXCELLENT.
SO, HOW ARE THINGS WORKING?
CHALLENGING?
IS IT SOMETHING THAT IS PRETTY EASY FOR YOU GUYS TO DO,
YOU'RE FINDING GOOD RESOURCES?
OR ARE THERE ANY MAJOR ISSUES THAT YOU'RE RUNNING INTO
THAT YOU'D LIKE TO JUST SHARE UP FRONT?
ANYONE?
>> I THINK ONCE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW, IT'S
EASY.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS GETTING TO KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO
KNOW.
BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW UNTIL YOU
KNOW THAT YOU DON'T KNOW IT.
[ Laughter ]
>> Tanya: I AGREE.
OKAY.
SO, WITH THAT IN MIND TODAY, AGAIN, MY EMPHASIS, WHAT
I'M GOING TO PRESENT IS MORE SO ON THE KIND OF SOME OF
THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW TO DO DOCUMENTS,
WHAT I'VE KIND OF COME TO FIND AS THE CORE PRINCIPLES
TO THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE DOING DOCUMENTS.
AND I'VE INVITED SOME GUESTS TODAY TO -- WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE A QUICK LITTLE INTRODUCTION FROM A COUPLE OF
PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES WHO USE DOCUMENTS EVERY DAY TO
DO THEIR PROFESSIONAL WORK.
AND I'M HOPING THAT THEY'LL SHARE WITH YOU HOW THEY USE
DOCUMENTS AND WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO HAVE
DOCUMENTS THAT ARE ACCESSIBLE SO THAT THEY CAN DO THEIR
WORK AS EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY AS ANY OTHER
PERSON.
AND, ALSO, AT THE END, WE'LL HAVE A PANEL DISCUSSION.
I'M HOPING TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD DIALOGUE.
I'VE INVITED COLLETTE JOHNSON HERE.
I UNDERSTAND SHE'S BEEN PART OF THIS GROUP FOR A WHILE.
AND -- WELL, DO YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF?
AND I'VE ALSO INVITED KEN RODGERS FROM THE DEPARTMENT
OF EMPLOYMENT AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
AND JAMIE TAYLOR, FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN
SERVICES.
SO, IF YOU GUYS WANT TO JUST GO AHEAD AND INTRODUCE
YOURSELF A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF.
I SUPPOSE YOU MIGHT WANT TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM,
UNLESS YOU WANT TO TALK REALLY LOUD.
AND JUST ANOTHER REMINDER, ANGIE IS OUR CART PROVIDER
TODAY, AND IN ORDER FOR HER TO TYPE WHAT WE'RE SAYING,
SHE NEEDS TO HEAR US.
SO, PLEASE SPEAK LOUD.
>> Collette: I'M COLLETTE JOHNSON WITH MINNESOTA
MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET.
AND I'M THE WEB DEVELOPER THERE.
AND WE'VE TAKEN ACCESSIBILITY QUITE SERIOUSLY IN OUR
AGENCY AND DOING A LOT OF TEACHING AND TRAINING
STATEWIDE WITH SOME OF THE AGENCIES INVOLVED.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY.
THAT'S ABOUT ALL.
>> Tanya: OKAY.
THANKS, COLLETTE.
KEN.
>> Ken: THANKS.
GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY.
SORRY FOR BEING LATE.
AND KIND OF BEING INTERRUPTING THERE.
AGAIN, I'M KEN RODGERS, I'M FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF
EMPLOYMENT AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
I WORK FOR VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION SERVICES.
OBVIOUSLY ACCESSIBILITY IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.
SO, I'VE BEEN VERY INTERESTED IN PRODDING THIS PROCESS
ALONG AS BEST I CAN AND TRYING TO SUPPORT IT AS BEST I
CAN, SO HOPEFULLY TODAY I'LL BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU WHY
ACCESSIBILITY IS SO VITALLY IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY FOR
PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO USE ASSISTIVE DEVICES AND SCREEN
READERS AND DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER CHOICE.
SO, THANK YOU.
>> Tanya: THANKS, KEN.
>> Jamie: HI.
MY NAME IS JAMIE TAYLOR.
AND I WORK WITH THE COMMISSION OF DEAF, DEAFBLIND AND
HARD OF HEARING MINNESOTANS.
THAT'S IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES.
AND I'M THE PUBLIC POLICY ANALYST.
AND I FOCUS ON TECHNOLOGY, TRANSPORTATION, AND VOTING
AND ALSO PARTICULARLY ANY ISSUES RELATED TO INDIVIDUALS
WHO ARE DEAFBLIND.
I AM DEAFBLIND MYSELF.
SO, I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING AND HELPING YOU UNDERSTAND
DOCUMENT ACCESSIBILITY.
AND WHERE I COME FROM IN THE WHOLE PERSPECTIVE.
>> Tanya: THANK YOU SO MUCH, GUESTS, FOR INTRODUCING
YOURSELVES.
AND I JUST WANT TO LET THE AUDIENCE KNOW THAT DIALOGUE
IS REALLY IMPORTANT, AND THAT'S WHY I INVITED THEM TO
COME HERE.
I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
TRUST ME, I GET A LOT OF E-MAILS FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE
QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS TOPIC, AND I WORK WITH WORK GROUPS
WHICH I COMPLETELY INVITE YOU TO PARTICIPATE, IF YOU'RE
INTERESTED.
WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BEST HELP AGENCIES
COME UP WITH IMPLEMENTATION PLANS ON HOW TO ADDRESS
INCORPORATING ACCESSIBILITY INTO THEIR AGENCIES.
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE NEXT STEP.
AND, AGAIN, I SAY, I REALLY WELCOME ANY ONE OF YOU GUYS
TO JOIN AND SHARE WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE DONE TO TAKE STEPS
IN IMPLEMENTING AT YOUR AGENCY.
SO, AGAIN, SO WE MIGHT AS WELL MOVE ON.
AND PRETTY MUCH MY PLAN WAS AN OVERVIEW ABOUT
TECHNOLOGY ACCESSIBILITY, DOCUMENT ACCESSIBILITY, WE'LL
HAVE A PANEL DISCUSSION, AND OPTIONAL PRACTICE LAB AT
THE END OR JUST HAVE MORE OF A DISCUSSION, IF YOU HAVE
SOME MORE QUESTIONS, YOU WANT TO STAY LATER, THAT'S
FINE.
SO, BEFORE WE START, I REALLY WANT TO HAVE US ALL BE ON
THE SAME PAGE BECAUSE WHAT I OFTEN HEAR IN MEETINGS OR
WHENEVER NEW PEOPLE JOIN IN MEETINGS, THEY QUICKLY FIND
OUT IS THAT OFTEN PEOPLE REFER TO IT AS THE A.D.A. LAW,
YOU KNOW, A.D.A. FOR THE WEBSITES OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
AND WHILE THE A.D.A., THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES
ACT, DOES -- IS IMPORTANT AND YOU PROBABLY KNOW ON YOUR
WEBSITES WHERE YOU SAY, IF YOU NEED AN ALTERNATIVE
VERSION, CONTACT THIS PERSON, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A
REQUIREMENT OF THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT.
AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE IS SOMETHING SOMEWHAT
DIFFERENT, WHICH IS TECHNOLOGY ACCESSIBILITY, LIKE
ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS.
AND WE'VE NOW AT THE STATE -- SO, WHEN I TALK ABOUT
ACCESSIBILITY, I'M GOING TO REFER TO THAT AS THE TERM
THAT'S LIMITED TO MINNESOTA TECHNOLOGY ACCESSIBILITY
STANDARDS FOR OUR PURPOSES.
WHEN YOU HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT USABILITY OR AT LEAST
IN MY EYES, I SEE THAT AS SOMETHING MORE BROAD AND MORE
ENCOMPASSING, AND WHILE THERE'S A LOT OF PRINCIPLES
WITHIN USABILITY THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE
WITH DISABILITIES TO ACCESS INFORMATION, THERE'S JUST A
LINE BETWEEN THE ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS AND THEN
USABILITY IS ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT.
WE SHOULD ALWAYS STRIVE FOR MORE USABILITY, BUT I WANT
TO DRAW THOSE TWO LINES CLEARLY SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER TERM THAT YOU OFTEN HEAR
ABOUT, WHICH I WAS REFERRING TO IS WHEN YOU SEE ON
WEBSITES, THEY SAY, IF YOU NEED AN ALTERNATIVE VERSION,
THAT'S AN ACCOMMODATION.
AND, AGAIN, THAT'S BY THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES
ACT AS A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION, CREATE AN
ALTERNATIVE FORMAT.
AND EVEN IF WE DO HAVE 100% ACCESSIBLE WEBSITES WITH
CONTENT ON THEM THAT IS ACCESSIBLE, THE DOCUMENTS OR
THE P.D.F.s, THERE ARE ALWAYS -- THERE ALWAYS IS THE
OPPORTUNITY AND THE RIGHT FOR AN INDIVIDUAL TO REQUEST
AN ALTERNATIVE VERSION, WHICH WOULD BE CALLED AN
ACCOMMODATION.
SO, I WANT TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION BECAUSE A.D.A.
DOESN'T EVER GO AWAY, BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT
ACCESSIBILITY OF THE SITE OR ANY APPLICATION AND ALSO
THE THINGS THAT ARE POSTED TO IT.
I CALL THEM ITEMS, BUT THE CONTENT, WHICH COULD BE
DOCUMENTS OR EVEN VIDEO, PODCASTS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
IS THAT CLEAR TO EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE?
OR DID YOU KIND OF THINK THAT THEY WERE KIND OF
CONNECTED OR SOMEHOW CONNECTED BUT MAYBE ONE IN THE
SAME?
JUST CONNECTED, RAISE OF HANDS, IF YOU THOUGHT THAT
THEY WERE PRETTY MUCH ONE IN THE SAME.
BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DO.
I THINK THAT MY EXPERIENCE IN THIS PROJECT FOR THE LAST
YEAR IS THAT PRETTY MUCH ALMOST EVERYBODY HAS THOUGHT
THAT THEY'RE ONE IN THE SAME.
BUT IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THIS AUDIENCE IS ALREADY MORE
KNOWLEDGEABLE.
SO, YOU KIND OF UNDERSTAND THOSE NUANCES BETWEEN THE
TWO.
MOLLY.
>> SOME OF US GOT THAT INFORMATION FROM RENA ROGERS AT
THE LAST SESSION.
>> Tanya: RIGHT.
OKAY.
OKAY.
>> OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE CONFUSING.
>> Tanya: CAN WE JUST GET A RAISE OF HANDS OF HOW
MANY PEOPLE ARE NEW, WEREN'T AT THE LAST MEETING, WHERE
RENA GAVE A INTRODUCTION.
SO THERE IS A HUGE NEW AUDIENCE.
EXCELLENT.
CAN I GET A RAISE OF HANDS IF THE IDEA OF ACCESSIBILITY
IS NEW?
NOT A.D.A., THE ALTERNATIVE VERSION, BUT THE IDEA OF
ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS AND DOCUMENT ACCESSIBILITY.
IS THAT NEW TO ANYBODY?
OR YOU'RE PRETTY WELL -- EXCELLENT.
WELL, YOU'RE THE PERFECT AUDIENCE BECAUSE YOU MUST BE
ALREADY HAVING TO DO THIS FOR YOUR WORK ANYWAY.
OKAY.
SO, I ALSO WANTED TO JUST ALSO COVER THE TYPES OF
POLICIES THAT ARE BEHIND THE MINNESOTA ACCESSIBILITY
STANDARDS.
AND WANT TO BE CLEAR HERE THAT THE POLICIES TODAY APPLY
TO STATE AGENCIES ONLY.
IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THERE'S OTHER GOVERNMENTAL TYPE
ENTITIES HERE.
AND MAYBE YOUR OWN, IF YOU'RE LIKE WITH THE UNIVERSITY,
YOU HAVE YOUR OWN POLICIES ON ACCESSIBILITY.
HOW MANY ARE FROM STATE AGENCIES ONLY?
OKAY.
SO, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE.
OKAY.
SO, IT DEFINITELY APPLIES TO YOU.
SO, IN 2009, THE STATE LEGISLATURE PASSED A LAW THAT
SAYS WE SHOULD INCORPORATE --
[ DOG CRYING ]
-- ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS.
AND, SO, IT DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY WHAT THOSE
STANDARDS WERE, BUT THEY SAID, WE'D LIKE YOU TO
INCORPORATE SECTION 508 AND ALSO THE WEB CONTENT ACCESS
GUIDELINES.
AND WHILE IT SAID THAT IN THE LEGISLATION, THERE HAS
BEEN AN ENTIRE PROCESS GOING ON OF EXPERTS AT THE
STATE, SOME IN THIS ROOM, REVIEWING THE STANDARDS AND
MAKING DECISIONS ON WHICH ONES OF THEM ARE FEASIBLE AND
DOABLE FOR THE STATE AND, SO, THEY'VE COME UP WITH A
LIST.
AND IT'S BEEN A LONG ONGOING PROCESS FOR REALLY, LIKE,
THE LAST NINE MONTHS.
AND IT'S GOING TO BE REVISED.
BUT THEY'VE COME UP WITH A LIST, A SET OF LIST OF
STANDARDS.
AND NOW O.E.T. HAS PUBLISHED THAT LIST OF ACCESSIBILITY
STANDARDS.
AND WHILE THEY'RE EFFECTIVE AND FOR THE MOST THEY'RE
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE WE NEED OUR CONTRACTS TO
INCORPORATE THEM RIGHT AWAY FOR ALL OF OUR PROCUREMENT
ACTIVITIES BECAUSE IT REALLY IMPACTS PROCUREMENT IN A
MAJOR WAY, BUT FOR AGENCIES, THEY NEED TO DEVELOP SOME
WAY OF IMPLEMENTING ACCESSIBILITY WITHIN YOUR AGENCY.
CAN I GET ANOTHER RAISE OF HANDS IF YOUR AGENCY HAS
STARTED TO COME UP WITH AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN OR A WAY
TO APPROACH INCORPORATING ACCESSIBILITY AT YOUR AGENCY
LEVEL?
SO, A FEW.
NOT MANY.
SO, I EXPECTED THERE'S A FEW, AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT
THE FEW MIGHT ALREADY HAVE BEEN IN THE PROCESS OF
FIGURING OUT HOW TO DO ACCESSIBILITY SIMPLY BECAUSE
THEY RECEIVE FEDERAL FUNDS.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES
AND YOU GET A LOT OF FUNDS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT,
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN REQUIRING THIS FOR OVER
TEN YEARS.
SO, WHILE IT HASN'T BEEN ALL THE WAY -- COMPLIANCE HAS
NOT BEEN REACHED ALL THE WAY EVEN OVER THESE TEN YEARS,
BUT IT HAS TRICKLED DOWN AND YOU WILL SEE AGENCIES WHO
HAVE ALREADY BEEN LEARNING THIS AND DEVELOPING --
IMPLEMENTING IT WITHIN THEIR AGENCIES.
SO, THE GOOD THING IS, I AM WORKING WITH A LOT OF THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE AND LEARNING FROM THEM.
AND I'M WORKING ON DEVELOPING SOME GUIDELINES.
I'M ALSO AVAILABLE TO HELP YOU AT THE AGENCIES TO HELP
DEVELOP YOUR OWN PLANS.
SO, THAT'S A PROCESS THAT WE'LL BE WORKING ON OVER
TIME.
AND THIS REALLY DOES TAKE TIME.
SO, LIKE I SAY, I HAVE IN MY SLIDE HERE, AGENCIES STILL
NEED TO DEVELOP INTERNAL POLICIES ON HOW THEY WILL
IMPLEMENT THE STANDARDS.
JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE STANDARDS THAT WE DID, LIKE I
MENTIONED, THIS GROUP ARE REVIEWING THE STANDARDS AND
SELECTING WHICH ONES WOULD BE BEST FOR MINNESOTA.
THEY DID INCORPORATE THESE TWO SETS OF STANDARDS.
ONE SET OF STANDARDS COMES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
IT'S REFERRED TO AS SECTION 508 OF THE REHABILITATION
ACT.
AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT NOW, YOU WILL LEARN
ABOUT IT.
THERE ARE PLENTY, PLENTY, PLENTY RESOURCES ABOUT IT ON
THE WEB.
AND THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER SET OF STANDARDS THAT WERE
MORE OR LESS ADOPTED IN THE LIST, WHICH ARE WEB CONTENT
ACCESSIBILITY GUIDELINES.
AND THEY HAVE DECIDED, THESE EXPERTS, HAVE DECIDED TO
REACH FOR THE DOUBLE A LEVEL.
AND, AGAIN, THE WORLD WIDE WEB CONSORTIUM IS, LIKE, THE
CREATOR OF THIS BODY OF STANDARDS, AND THEY HAVE MANY
MANY MANY RESOURCES ON HOW TO -- WHAT THEY ARE, HOW TO
DO IT, HOW TO TEST FOR IT AND EVERYTHING.
JUST SO YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF COMPLICATED GOING ON
THEIR WEBSITE.
IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY.
ANYBODY FAMILIAR WITH IT?
EVERYBODY PRETTY MUCH COMPLAINS ABOUT HOW UNORGANIZED
AND CRAZY, MESSY IT IS.
BUT I HAVE BEEN IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING SOME WAYS
TO ACCESS THE INFORMATION ON THEIR SITE THAT IS PRETTY
EASY AND QUICK.
EVENTUALLY THEY'LL BE AVAILABLE ON O.E.T.'S WEBSITE
ONCE -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF OUT OF MY HANDS RIGHT
NOW, BUT I'M CREATING ALL THE MATERIALS AND THEY'LL BE
UP AND AVAILABLE.
BUT MY PLAN WAS FOR DECEMBER 1st, BUT I DON'T THINK
THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BY THEN.
BUT IT WILL BE COMING.
OKAY.
SO, OKAY.
AND THEN FOR SOME OTHER IMPLEMENTATION ACTIVITIES THAT
HAVE BEEN GOING ON IN TERMS OF THE ACCESSIBILITY
INITIATIVE, ADMIN, THE MATERIALS MANAGEMENT DIVISION,
THEY DEAL WITH PROCUREMENT.
AND SECTION 508 REALLY SPEAKS TO PROCUREMENT IN A VERY
SIGNIFICANT WAY.
SO, M.M.D. HAS BEEN IMPACTED THROUGH ALL OF THEIR
CONTRACTS AND ALL THEIR PURCHASING METHODOLOGIES.
AND OVER THE LAST YEAR, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH A BUNCH
OF PROCUREMENT PROFESSIONALS ON HOW TO INCORPORATE
ACCESSIBILITY INTO THOSE CONTRACTS.
SO, LIKE I SAID, THOSE WILL BE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY.
IF YOU'RE DOING AN R.F.P. NOW, YOU MIGHT EVEN SEE THE
ACCESSIBILITY LANGUAGE HAS BEEN UPDATED IN IT.
AND WE'RE DEVELOPING TRAINING.
YOU GUYS PROBABLY WON'T REALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH
PROCUREMENT ALL THAT MUCH UNLESS YOU'RE WORKING ON A
PROJECT.
AND THEN AT O.E.T., SOME OF THE ACTIVITIES THAT WE'RE
DOING IS THE -- IS WORKING ON THE WEBSITE INFORMATION
LIKE I WAS JUST EXPLAINING, GETTING IT TOGETHER.
MY GOAL IS TO HAVE IT BE AS -- BRING TOGETHER THE RIGHT
TYPES OF INFORMATION FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO JUST GO GET
IT AT A CENTRAL PLACE IN A VERY EASY WAY VERSUS HAVING
TO GO AND TRY OUT ALL THESE DIFFERENT RESOURCES BECAUSE
THERE ARE A LOT OF RESOURCES.
 AND I'VE REVIEWED A LOT OF RESOURCES.
AND I, LIKE YOU GUYS, WANT TO COMMUNICATE INFORMATION
AS EASILY AND EFFECTIVELY.
I'M GOING TO TRY TO COMMUNICATE THIS AS EASILY AND
EFFECTIVELY, HOPEFULLY, FOR YOU GUYS, TOO.
AND, OF COURSE, I'LL HAVE HELP ON DEVELOPING THAT.
BUT WE'RE ALSO PUTTING TOGETHER IN-CLASS AND ONLINE
TRAININGS.
HOPEFULLY WE'LL EVEN HAVE LIKE FULL WEB-BASED TRAININGS
ON HOW TO CREATE ACCESSIBLE WORD AND P.D.F.s.
AND IN-CLASS, TODAY IS REALLY LIKE A PILOT, AND I'M NOT
EVEN DOING A TRAINING, I'M JUST PRESENTING SOME
INFORMATION.
BUT THERE WILL BE FULL-ON TRAININGS FOR THAT, THAT'S IN
OUR PLAN.
FOR -- THERE WILL BE TRAINING FOR DESIGNING WEBSITES,
INCORPORATING ACCESSIBILITY IN YOUR WEBSITES AND OTHER
I.T. DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, TRAINING ON CAPTIONING AND
AUDIO DESCRIPTION.
AND WE'RE OPEN TO LOOKING AT A LOT OF OTHER OPTIONS, IF
YOU GUYS DEEM THAT THERE'S A NEED OR, YOU KNOW, I'LL
TAKE ANY SUGGESTIONS AND TRY TO PUT TOGETHER WHATEVER
POSSIBLE THAT WILL HELP YOU.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, PROVIDING TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE FOR
AGENCIES AS THEY DEVELOP THEIR PLANS AND ASSESSMENT OF
HOW IT IMPACTS THEM IN PUTTING TOGETHER PLANS AND
POLICIES AT THE AGENCY LEVEL.
SO THIS IS PRETTY MUCH THE ACTIVITIES THAT I SEE
HAPPENING FROM NOW ON.
HEY, YOU HAD A QUESTION?
>> YEAH.
OF THE THINGS YOU JUST MENTIONED, THE TRAINING
OPPORTUNITIES, BY WHAT DO YOU THINK SOME OF THAT OR
MOST OF THAT STUFF WILL BE AVAILABLE?
LIKE SIX MONTHS?
>> Tanya: WITHIN SIX MONTHS, DEFINITELY.
I'M THINKING JUST DEPENDING ON -- WELL, ORIGINALLY I
WAS THINKING IT WAS GOING TO BE MOSTLY IN-CLASS, BUT WE
MIGHT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET WEB-BASED TRAININGS UP
AND GOING.
SO WE MIGHT SPEND SOME MORE TIME ON THAT FIRST IN
SOLIDIFYING AND MAKING SURE ALL OF THE MATERIALS ARE
REALLY GOOD SO IT COULD BE A LITTLE LATER.
BUT JANUARY, FEBRUARY.
TODAY'S, LIKE, A START.
AND I HAVE BEEN HAVING SOME TRAININGS AT O.E.T.
PILOTING THEM, GETTING SOME FEEDBACK.
SO, WE'LL SEE.
IT'S NOT THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE THERE.
OF COURSE, I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS NEED THE INFORMATION.
MOLLY.
YOU HAVE A QUESTION?
MOLLY:  YEAH, I DO.
I'M SORRY.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU.
>> Tanya: NO PROBLEM.
MOLLY:  FINISHING YOUR SENTENCE.
I KNOW THAT THE INITIATIVE THAT YOU GUYS ARE WORKING ON
RIGHT NOW SORT OF HAS AN END DATE, SO TO SPEAK, AT THE
NEXT BIENNIUM, RIGHT?
>> Tanya: IT DOES.
THE PROJECT ENDS, LIKE, JULY 1st.
MOLLY:  ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON THIS AFTER
THAT AS FAR AS HELPING THE DIFFERENT AGENCIES?
>> Tanya: WELL, WE HOPE -- YEAH.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE PLAN.
MOLLY:  OKAY.
>> Tanya: BUT WE HAVE TO PUT JUST SOME MORE PROCESSES
IN PLACE.
REALLY, IT'S LIKE A PROGRAM, AN ONGOING PROGRAM WITH
SOME SHORT-TERM TRANSITIONAL ACTIVITIES, EVEN ONGOING.
SO WE HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT.
I MEAN, THAT'S DEFINITELY -- THE LEGISLATURE FUNDED A
TWO-YEAR PROJECT.
AND THEN -- AND, REALLY, A LOT OF THE RESPONSIBILITY IS
GOING TO HAPPEN AT THE AGENCY LEVEL.
IT WILL.
BUT THERE ALSO NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF SUPPORT AND A
CENTRAL MECHANISM OR PLACE THAT HOLDS ALL OF IT
TOGETHER, TAKES LEADERSHIP ON IT.
AND I KNOW THAT O.E.T. IS TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
BUT, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE LEGISLATURE ALLOCATED
MONEY FOR A PROJECT, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO
FIGURE OUT A WAY TO SUSTAIN IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
AND FOR ME AS A -- I'M ON THE PROJECT RIGHT NOW, BUT
I'M -- AND I'M THINKING THEY PROBABLY WON'T HAVE
FUNDING BECAUSE I'M PRETTY REALISTIC ABOUT WHAT'S
HAPPENING WITH OUR FUNDS AT THE STATE.
SO, I'M TRYING TO PUT AS MUCH -- AS MUCH IN PLACE AS
POSSIBLE.
I THINK THAT'S AS GOOD AS WE CAN DO, I MEAN, GIVEN THAT
THE SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN.
JAMIE.
>> Jamie: I JUST WANTED TO BRING UP THAT THERE IS ONE
RESOURCE ALREADY ON HOW TO CAPTION VIDEOS, ONLINE
TRAINING.
IT'S AT WWW.MNCDHH.ORG.
IT'S CALLED ONLINE CAPTION ESSENTIALS.
AND YOU CAN JUST CLICK ON THAT AND THAT WILL GIVE YOU
ON HOW TO CAPTION YOUR ONLINE VIDEOS OR VIDEOS THAT YOU
HAVE ON D.V.D. OR OR EVEN HOW TO DO A WEBINAR AND CLOSE
CAPTION THAT.
SO, THERE ARE SOME RESOURCES ALREADY OUT THERE THAT
HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED.
>> Tanya: YES.
THANK YOU, JAMIE, FOR MENTIONING THAT.
IN THE FUTURE, WE'LL HAVE A LINK TO THAT ON THE
WEBSITE.
BUT THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE OF THE WEB-BASED TRAINING FOR
CAPTIONING.
WE HOPE TO EVEN HAVE THE CONTRACT SO THAT VENDOR CAN
MAKE SOME MORE TRAININGS, IF WE HAVE ENOUGH FUNDS TO DO
THAT.
SO THAT'S OUR PLAN.
WE'RE TRYING TO.
SO, OKAY.
SO, I JUST WANTED TO -- I KNOW I INTRODUCED BOTH KEN
AND JAMIE TO THE GROUP, BUT WHAT I REALLY WAS HOPING IS
THAT YOU GUYS COULD HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW
DOCUMENTS IMPACT THEIR EVERYDAY WORK.
KEN AND JAMIE, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO COME UP AND TALK
ABOUT THAT REAL QUICK?
>> Ken: SURE.
OBVIOUSLY ACCESSIBILITY IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, IF I
CAN'T EVEN FIND THE PODIUM.
YOU KNOW, WE LIVE IN A VISUAL WORLD, WE LIVE IN A PRINT
WORLD, AND ESPECIALLY IN GOVERNMENT, EVERYTHING IS IN
WRITING, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S THIS ENDEAVOR AND EFFORT
TO GO PAPERLESS AND BE AS TREE-SAVING AS POSSIBLE, WE
SEEM TO JUST BE CREATING MORE AND MORE AND MORE PRINT
MATERIAL EVERY DAY.
PRINT MATERIAL, WE LIVE AND BREATHE BY IT.
BUT IF THERE ISN'T A MEANS FOR MAKING PRINT MATERIAL
AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY, WE HAVE A DISCONNECT IN THE
SYSTEM.
SO, ACCESSIBILITY IS VITAL FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO WORK,
TO BE PRODUCTIVE, TO BE INDEPENDENT.
SO, IF I DON'T HAVE ACCESSIBILITY, I CAN'T DO MY WORK.
I CAN'T DO ANY TYPE OF COMPARABLE WORK THAT ANYBODY
THAT'S SIGHTED COULD DO.
SO, IN ORDER TO HAVE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, I JUST
DON'T HAVE IT WITHOUT ACCESSIBILITY.
TECHNOLOGY IS VERY HELPFUL.
WE CAN'T -- TECHNOLOGY REALLY MAKES LIFE A LOT EASIER,
BUT TECHNOLOGY ALSO CREATES PROBLEMS.
AND CREATES A LOT OF BARRIERS IN AND OF ITSELF
SOMETIMES.
P.D.F. IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF THOSE TYPES OF ISSUES
THAT ALTHOUGH VERY WIDELY USED AND WIDELY APPRECIATED
BY A LOT OF PEOPLE, P.D.F.s CREATE A LOT OF PROBLEMS
IN TERMS OF ACCESSIBILITY.
CAN I HAVE MY -- MY BACKPACK?
THANKS.
I WANTED TO SHOW YOU, WE TALK ABOUT EQUIPMENT AND
TECHNOLOGY IN OUR DAILY WORK, AND WE ALL HAVE COMPUTERS
AT OUR DESK.
HAVE SMARTPHONES, HAVE, YOU KNOW, P.D.A.s.
ONE OF THE DEVICES THAT PEOPLE WHO DON'T SEE OR SEE
VERY LIMITED USE IS ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY OR ASSISTIVE
DEVICES.
AND ONE OF THOSE DEVICES IS, FOR ME, IS CALLED A
BRAILLE SENSE PLUS.
I'M GOING TO SHOW IT TO YOU.
VERY SMALL, VERY TINY, VERY LIGHT.
AND IT'S JUST A KEYBOARD, A KEYBOARD WITH REFRESHABLE
BRAILLE CELLS AT THE BOTTOM AND SOME INPUT CELLS AT THE
TOP.
IT DOES HAVE VOICE OUTPUT, BUT THIS RIGHT HERE IS
COMPARABLE TO ANY LAPTOP OR DESKTOP COMPUTER.
FOR ANYBODY THAT'S SIGHTED.
THIS HAPPENS TO HAVE A LITTLE L.C.D. VISUAL DISPLAY ON
IT SO THAT I CAN TURN IT ON AND SOMEBODY CAN WATCH WHAT
I'M DOING OR I CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH JAMIE AS A
DEAFBLIND INDIVIDUAL AND TURN MY -- FLIP IT AROUND SO
SHE COULD READ IT AS I'M TYPING TO HER.
AND THEN I CAN READ -- IF SHE TYPES A RESPONSE BACK, I
CAN READ IT IN THE BRAILLE CELLS OR SHE CAN READ IT IN
THE BRAILLE CELLS IF SHE KNOWS BRAILLE.
  SO THAT'S ONE DEVICE THAT WE USE.
THESE DEVICES DO NOT -- THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND P.D.F.s
AT ALL.
I CAN'T OPEN A P.D.F. AND EVEN ATTEMPT TO READ IT WITH
THIS DEVICE.
THIS IS A $7,000 MACHINE.
IT'S OF THE MARKET.
IT'S BRAND-NEW.
SO, IT'S NOT THAT THIS IS OLD TECHNOLOGY.
IT'S JUST THAT P.D.F.s ARE A PROBLEM.
THE OTHER DEVICES THAT WE USE ARE PRETTY COMPARABLE,
AND THEY ARE THE SAME DEVICES THAT YOU USE, WE JUST
HAVE DIFFERENT TOOLS TO HELP US USE THEM, LIKE SCREEN
READERS.
HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE -- LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, HOW
MANY PEOPLE HAVE NOT EVER HAD A CHANCE TO EXPERIENCE A
SCREEN READER ON A COMPUTER?
RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU HAVE NOT.
WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?
>> Collette: ABOUT 12 PEOPLE.
>> Tanya: MOST IN THE ROOM HAVE NOT.
>> Ken: MOST OF YOU HAVE NOT.
SO, SCREEN READERS MAKE THE PRINT ON A SCREEN
ACCESSIBLE FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME AND JAMIE, BUT THEY'RE
NOT THE END ALL BE ALL.
SO THEY'RE JUST A TOOL, JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE.
AND AS ALL TOOLS, THERE'S A RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT
JOB.
AND WE TRY TO MAKE SCREEN READERS THE TOOL THAT WE USE
FOR EVERYTHING.
AND IT'S NOT ALWAYS MEANT TO BE THAT.
SO, HOPEFULLY TODAY YOU'LL BE ABLE TO GET SOME OF THOSE
TYPES OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED FOR YOU.
>> Tanya: HOW ABOUT, KEN, WHAT ARE THE TOP THREE
THINGS THAT WOULD MAKE THE BIGGEST IMPACT WITH
DOCUMENTS?
>> Ken: IN MY DAILY WORK, THE TOP THREE THINGS -- I'M
GOING TO CHANGE THAT QUESTION AROUND A LITTLE BIT AND
LET ME PUT IT IN THE FORM OF A BARRIER.
THE TOP THREE THINGS THAT ARE BARRIERS IN MY DAILY WORK
ARE INACCESSIBILITY DOCUMENTS.
I GET AN E-MAIL FROM SOMEBODY THAT HAS SOMETHING
ATTACHED TO IT AND I CAN'T OPEN IT.
I CAN'T READ IT.
OR IF I OPEN IT, I CAN'T READ IT BECAUSE IT'S
JIBBERRISH OR MY SCREEN READER CAN'T ACCESS IT.
THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE.
THE SECOND IS GOING TO A MEETING AND HAVING PAPERS
PASSED OUT SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN READ THE PAPERS AND
FOLLOW ALONG WITH AN AGENDA OR WHATEVER'S BEING
PRESENTED.
IF I DON'T GET THAT MATERIAL AHEAD OF TIME AND HAVE A
CHANCE TO REVIEW IT AHEAD OF TIME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S
ON THAT PAPER.
AND PROBABLY THE THIRD THING HAS TO DO WITH GETTING
WHAT I NEED TO HAVE PRINTED OR WRITTEN OR EXCHANGED TO
SOMEONE ELSE IN A FORM THAT THEY CAN READ.
AND MOST OF THE TIME THAT'S PRETTY EASY.
BUT WHEN THE -- IN TERMS OF BARRIERS, IT'S A PRINTER
FOR ME THAT WOULD BE THE BARRIER.
I CAN PRINT SOMETHING, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WHAT IS
PRINTED OR WHAT COMES OUT OF THE PRINTER NECESSARILY IS
WHAT I INTENDED IT TO BE BECAUSE I CAN'T VERIFY THAT
UNLESS I USE A DIFFERENT TOOL AND SLAP IT ON MY SCANNER
AND LET MY SCANNER READ IT AND SEE WHAT COMES OUT.
SO, THOSE ARE THE THREE MAIN ISSUES THAT ARE BARRIERS
IN MY WORK EVERY DAY.
EACH AND EVERY DAY.
>> Tanya: THANK YOU.
>> Jamie: HI.
MY NAME IS JAMIE.
AND A LOT OF WHAT KEN SAID JUST RESONATES WITH ME AS
WELL.
I DO A LOT OF DOCUMENTS.
I WRITE A LOT OF DOCUMENTS.
I ALSO READ A LOT OF DOCUMENTS, OR AT LEAST ATTEMPT TO
READ THE DOCUMENTS.
AND I COULD GO TO ANY MEETING SUCH AS THIS AND BE
HANDED A PRINT DOCUMENT AND THEN, OF COURSE, I ALWAYS
ASK, DO YOU MIND SENDING IT TO ME IN ELECTRONIC FORMAT,
AND IF I'M PROACTIVE I ALWAYS ASK BEFORE THE MEETING.
SOMETIMES EVERYONE'S IN A RUSH TO GET ALL THE DOCUMENTS
DONE AND, SO, I DON'T HAVE THE DOCUMENT.
BUT I TRY.
AND THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS OUT THERE, BUT,
LIKE I SAID, PAPER.
AND THEN I WAIT FOR THE ELECTRONIC COPY.
AND THEN I PUT IT ON MY SCREEN AND OFTENTIMES I HAVE
TWO CHOICES.
I CAN TRY TO READ IT WITH THE SCREEN MAGNIFIER THAT
ZOOMS THE SCREEN REALLY BIG, ABOUT, OH, I'D SAY ABOUT
HALF -- NOT HALF AN INCH, YOU KNOW, HALF OF HALF AN
INCH WOULD BE ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE PRINT I'M READING
ON THE SCREEN.
SO, YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW MUCH I CAN GET ON THE SCREEN.
IT'S NOT VERY MUCH.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, I USE DIFFERENT COLORS, TOO, ON
THE SCREEN BECAUSE I DO HAVE SOME VISION.
NOT TERRIBLY A LOT, BUT I -- SO THAT IS REALLY HELPFUL
BECAUSE A LOT OF DOCUMENTS I GET ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR
THE SCREEN READER.
AND, SO, I CAN READ IT WITH THE BRAILLE DISPLAY.
BUT LET ME SAY, P.D.F.s CAN BE THE MOST GORGEOUS
THINGS IN THE WORLD, BUT MOST OF THE TIME THEY'RE NOT.
SO, I DID GO TO ONE MANUFACTURER, BROM, FOR EXAMPLE,
AND I ENCOUNTERED A GORGEOUS P.D.F., IT WAS EVEN MORE
ACCESSIBLE THAN MOST WORD DOCUMENTS.
SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A HEADS-UP, P.D.F.s CAN BE REALLY
WONDERFUL, BUT THEY CAN ALSO BE REALLY BAD AND SO CAN
WORD DOCUMENTS BE REALLY GOOD AND ALSO REALLY BAD, TOO.
THEY CAN BE JUST SCANNED PICTURES.
WITH NO ABILITY FOR -- IT'S JUST A PICTURE FOR ME TO
CONVERT TO COLORS BECAUSE IT'S NOT -- IT'S A PICTURE
AND PICTURES DON'T GET -- THE COLORS DON'T CHANGE.
SO JUST TO LET YOU KNOW.
BUT YOU CAN ALSO HAVE THAT WITH A P.D.F., TOO.
SO THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS YOU CAN DO TO MITIGATE
THAT.
SUCH AS PUTTING ALT TEXT ON THERE.
AND A LOT OF PICTURES DON'T HAVE ALT TEXT OR THE GRAPHS
AREN'T -- ARE JUST IMAGES OF GRAPHS THAT PEOPLE HAVE
PLUCKED FROM THE INTERNET AND JUST PUT IN THEIR
DOCUMENTS.
WELL, YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME ALTERNATIVE HERE BECAUSE A
LOT OF THOSE GRAPHS ARE JUST PICTURES AND, OF COURSE, I
CAN'T CHANGE THE COLORS.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, A SCREEN READER, WHEN I'M READING
WITH A BRAILLE DISPLAY, IT DOES NOT READ THE PICTURE,
AND IF YOU DON'T ADD IT IN ALT TEXT, IT WILL READ IT AT
EACH LONG NUMBER.
SO A LOT OF TIMES THE PICTURES AREN'T LABELED VERY WELL
IN THE TITLE, SO, OKAY, HERE IT GOES.
I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
ONE PLUS -- ONE PERCENTAGE PLUS SIGN.
ASTERISK ZERO, ONE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, BLAH BLAH
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.
OH.
DOT J.P.G.
OKAY.
 AND THAT COULD GO ON FOR A LONG SERIES OF TIME.
SO, JUST TO GIVE YOU A HINT, TRYING TO READ THAT IS
REALLY ANNOYING.
SO, TRY TO REMEMBER TO ADD ALT TEXT OR -- TO YOUR IMAGE
AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
BUT THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE THINGS I ENCOUNTER.
AND THAT'S ALSO ONE REASON WHY I OFTEN TRY TO USE MY
SCREEN MAGNIFICATION A LOT.
BUT, OKAY.
ANOTHER THING THAT I ENCOUNTER THAT'S ANNOYING IS THE
COLORS, WHEN YOU TRY TO DO DOCUMENTS, FOR EXAMPLE.
TRY TO USE THE DEFAULT COLORS THAT COME WITH THE STYLES
AND ALSO THE FONT COLORS BECAUSE -- THAT ARE WITH THE
PROGRAM THAT MICROSOFT HAD PICKED BECAUSE THOSE GET
TRANSLATED THE BEST WHEN I WANT TO CHANGE MY COLORS
BECAUSE THE SCREEN MAGNIFICATION PROGRAM CHANGES THE
COLORS FOR ME.
AND, SO, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO IT ON YOUR END, BUT IF
YOU USE THE DEFAULT STYLES AND COLORS AND SO ON, THAT
WORD HAS, IT GETS TRANSLATED REALLY NICELY.
SO, I DON'T SEE BLACK ON BLACK, OOH, WHERE DID THE TEXT
GO?
I DON'T KNOW.
SO, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER THING.
AND MY THIRD PET PEEVE IS SIMPLY THAT IF YOU HAVE ANY
AUDIO IN YOUR DOCUMENT AT ALL, LIKE, YOU MIGHT HAVE A
DOCUMENT THAT HAS A NICE LITTLE REPORT AND AT THE END
YOU ADDED A LITTLE VIDEO CLIP, OKAY, I CAN'T UNDERSTAND
WHAT THE VIDEO IS SAYING.
SO, IF YOU ADD CAPTIONS TO THE VIDEO, THAT'S REALLY
WONDERFUL.
OR EVEN A TRANSCRIPT.
TRANSCRIPTS AREN'T THE GREATEST, BUT THEY'RE EVEN
BETTER FOR ME BECAUSE I CAN USE -- I CAN SEARCH IT AND
NAVIGATE AND REWIND BECAUSE I CAN'T ALWAYS SEE THE
CAPTIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT BIG ENOUGH.
BUT I KNOW A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES, BECAUSE I WORK IN
THE COMMISSION OF DEAF, DEAFBLIND AND HARD OF HEARING
MINNESOTANS, SO A LOT OF MY CONSTITUENTS AND CO-WORKERS
ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING, TOO, AND THEY HAVE A HARD
TIME UNDERSTANDING IT AS WELL.
SO, THAT'S JUST A BOOST FOR THEM.
AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE DEAF AND YOU CAN'T
HEAR AND YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT A SCREEN READER IS LIKE,
GO TO ANY APPLE STORE AND GO ON -- AND THE CUSTOMER
SERVICE WILL HELP YOU.
IT'S CALLED VOICEOVER.
AND THEY HAVE SOMETHING CALLED A BRAILLE DISPLAY --
ACTUAL BRAILLE VIEWER.
AND IF YOU ENABLE THAT, YOU WILL SEE THE ACTUAL WORDS
OF WHAT IS BEING SHOWN ON A BRAILLE -- YOU'LL SEE A
VISUAL BRAILLE DISPLAY ON THE SCREEN, WHICH IS KIND OF
NEAT, BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED A $7,000 BRAILLE DISPLAY
TO SEE IT, BUT YOU WON'T UNDERSTAND IT, BUT UNDERNEATH
IT, IT HAS THE TEXT IN ENGLISH.
SO, THAT'S JUST A PLUS TO LET YOU KNOW THAT.
I ALWAYS LIKE TO ADVERTISE THAT BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE
DON'T KNOW THAT.
AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE CAN
UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH.
OKAY.
TALK TO YOU LATER.
OH, AND THAT'S FREE, TOTALLY FREE, VOICEOVER.
SO, ON THE APPLE COMPUTER.
SO, JUST TO GIVE YOU A HINT.
SO ANY OF YOU CAN GO TO THE APPLE STORE AND TRY IT OUT.
THEY'RE REALLY FRIENDLY AT THE APPLE STORES.
SO, ANNOY THEM LIKE CRAZY AND IF THEY DON'T KNOW, THEY
WILL WANT TO TRY TO LEARN ABOUT IT.
SO, JUST PROMOTE ACCESSIBILITY ALL THE TIME.
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
>> Tanya: THANK YOU SO MUCH, JAMIE AND KEN.
OKAY.
SO, I THINK I'M PRETTY MUCH READY TO MOVE ON.
SO, I HAVE BEEN SPENDING SEVERAL, SEVERAL MONTHS TRYING
TO LEARN ABOUT ACCESSIBILITY MYSELF BECAUSE I DIDN'T
HAVE A BACKGROUND IN TECHNOLOGY OR ACCESSIBILITY EVEN
BEFORE JOINING ON THIS PROJECT.
I HAVE A BACKGROUND IN PUBLIC POLICY.
AND, SO, I'VE BEEN DOING LEARNING LEARNING LEARNING
LEARNING AND LEARNING.
AND LET ME TELL YOU, THERE ARE, PROBABLY YOU ALREADY
FIGURED THIS OUT, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF RESOURCES ON
HOW TO CREATE ACCESSIBLE DOCUMENTS.
AND THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT THEM THAT YOU'LL SEE
OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
I THINK THEY PRETTY MUCH COVER THE CORE BARRIERS THAT
BOTH KEN AND JAMIE HAVE IDENTIFIED, BUT SOME WILL GO
INTO FAR GREATER DETAIL AND IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE SAME IN
EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE.
SO WHAT I'VE DONE IS PUT TOGETHER KIND OF A LIST OF
PRINCIPLES, SO TO SAY, CORE IDEAS -- CORE THINGS TO
THINK ABOUT WHENEVER YOU'RE CREATING DOCUMENTS.
THIS ALSO REALLY APPLIES TO SOME EXTENT, NOT ALL OF
THEM, BUT WHEN YOU'RE CREATING WEB PAGES, TOO.
SO, I'VE PULLED FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES, AND
RIGHT NOW I'M TRYING TO KEEP THE LIST AS CONCISE AS
POSSIBLE BUT IT'S AT NINE, OF PRINCIPLES FOR DOCUMENT
ACCESSIBILITY.
SO I'M GOING TO GO OVER THE LIST REAL QUICK AND THEN
I'LL GO ON AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT EACH PRINCIPLE.
I WILL START WITH NUMBER ONE.
AND, REMEMBER, WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT WORD
DOCUMENTS HERE.
POWERPOINTS, FOR THE MOST PART, CAN BE THE SAME,
ALTHOUGH IN POWERPOINT, YOU CAN INCLUDE VIDEO, SO THEN
YOU WOULD HAVE TO THINK ABOUT CAPTIONS AND A TRANSCRIPT
AS WELL.
BUT I REALLY REALLY WOULD LIKE TO JUST KEEP IT TO
THINKING ABOUT WORD DOCUMENTS FOR NOW.
AND WHEN IT COMES TO P.D.F., THE MAIN -- THE MAIN
MESSAGE THAT I'VE BEEN LEARNING EVERYWHERE IS THAT YOU
NEED TO CREATE AN ACCESSIBLE SOURCE FILE FIRST.
AND, SO, THAT REALLY IS THIS WORD DOCUMENT HERE.
SO, JUST FOCUS ON THAT.
SO, NUMBER ONE, I THINK IS MOST IMPORTANT IS TO ASSIGN
PROPERTIES TO THE DOCUMENT.
NUMBER TWO, USE STYLES TO STRUCTURALLY MARK UP YOUR
DOCUMENT.
THREE, DON'T RELY ON COLOR TO CONVEY MEANING.
FOUR, USE ALT TEXT, AND YOU HEARD JAMIE TALK ABOUT
THIS, AND CAPTIONS TO EXPLAIN INFORMATION IN IMAGES,
PICTURES, CHARTS OR GRAPHS.
FIVE, USE BUILT-IN FORMATTING FEATURES FOR COLUMNS.
SIX, BE JUDICIOUS WITH TABLES.
SEVEN, DON'T RELY ON SOUND.
PROVIDE CAPTIONS AND TRANSCRIPTS.
EIGHT, BE CLEAR AND BRIEF.
AND, NINE, ADD A MEANINGFUL DESCRIPTION TO HYPERLINKS.
AND LIKE I SAID, THERE ARE MANY MORE, BUT I REALLY TRY
TO IDENTIFY THESE AS THE CORE PRINCIPLES AND -- AT THE
END, I'LL REFERENCE A DOCUMENT THAT I FOUND TO BE -- I
THINK IT'S THE BEST ONE THAT I'VE COME ACROSS FROM THE
SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION AND I'LL GIVE YOU THE
LINK TO THAT DOCUMENT AT THE END.
AND IT PRETTY MUCH WILL TELL YOU HOW TO DO EVERYTHING
WITH A WORD DOCUMENT AND A P.D.F. AND HOW TO TEST EACH
AND EVERY LITTLE PART OF IT.
SO, IT'S VERY THOROUGH, COMPREHENSIVE, AND IT'S BEEN
UPDATED, JUST IN MARCH.
SO, IT'S UP TO DATE.
THAT IS -- SO, OKAY.
FOR PRINCIPLE ONE, ASSIGNING PROPERTIES TO YOUR
DOCUMENT.
DO YOU GUYS ALREADY DO THAT WITH YOUR DOCUMENTS?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SAY
PROPERTIES?
YES.
>> NO.
>> Tanya: GOOD.
I DISCOVERED THIS ONE, TOO, AND I'VE BEEN JUST SHARING
IT WITH COLLEAGUES EVERY TIME I COME ACROSS NEW
DOCUMENTS OR I'M CREATING OR CO-CREATING DOCUMENTS WITH
OTHERS.
YES.
>> WILL THIS PRESENTATION BE E-MAILED OUT TO US AFTER?
>> Tanya: YES.
I WILL E-MAIL THIS PRESENTATION OUT.
SO YOU CAN GET AN ELECTRONIC VERSION.
MOLLY.
MOLLY:  WE'LL ALSO POST IT ON OUR WEBSITE, TOO.
>> OKAY, PERFECT.
MOLLY: SO YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT FROM THERE.
YEAH.
>> Tanya: EXCELLENT.
THANK YOU.
SO, WHAT I'VE DISCOVERED IS THAT EVERY DOCUMENT
BASICALLY ATTACHES METADATA TO IT IF IT'S A WORD
DOCUMENT.
AND THIS IS KIND OF INTERESTING.
IT'S PRETTY MUCH WHATEVER -- IF IT'S MY COMPUTER AND
THIS ONE IS LICENSED TO ME SO WHATEVER DOCUMENT I
ORIGINATE, THAT ORIGINATES ON MY COMPUTER, IT
AUTOMATICALLY PUTS TANYA BELANGER AS THE AUTHOR.
AND IT WOULD GO MANY OTHER PLACES.
OR I WORK WITH CONTRACT DOCUMENTS WITH M.M.D., AND IT
WILL SAY, LIKE, THE STAFF PERSON AT M.M.D. ON A
SOLICITATION DOCUMENT.
IT SHOULDN'T.
IT SHOULD SAY DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION.
IT NOW DOES.
BUT WE'VE KIND OF JUST BEEN LEARNING ALONG, TOO.
AND HOW -- WHY IT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT, AT LEAST FROM
WHAT I'VE LEARNED, IS THAT WITH SCREEN READERS, THE
PROPERTIES, THE LABELS, THE AUTHOR AND THE TITLE, AND
MAYBE EVEN LIKE THE SUBJECT, YOU CAN PUT WHATEVER TYPES
OF DESCRIPTIONS ATTACHED TO THE DOCUMENT, IT'S LIKE THE
VERY FIRST THING THAT A SCREEN READER WILL COME ACROSS.
YOU KNOW, USUALLY IF IT'S NOT -- SO, IT WILL
AUTOMATICALLY USUALLY POPULATE A NAME.
SO, IT WILL POPULATE MY NAME, BUT I GO IN AND CHANGE IT
TO OFFICE OF ENTERPRISE TECHNOLOGY.
AND THEN IT WILL PULL WHATEVER MY FIRST SENTENCE OF MY
DOCUMENT IS.
IF I HAVEN'T USED STYLES TO MARK UP MY DOCUMENT, THEN
IT PULLS WHATEVER MY FIRST SENTENCE IS AND GIVES IT AS
THE TITLE, WHICH CAN BE COMPLETELY TOTALLY OFF.
OR UNRELATED TO WHAT THE DOCUMENT IS ANYWAYS.
AND ANOTHER BENEFIT TO ASSIGNING PROPERTIES TO THE
DOCUMENT IS THAT BY PUTTING THE METADATA ON IT AND IF
YOU POST IT TO YOUR WEBSITE, THEN THAT MEANS THAT IT'S
EVEN MORE SEARCHABLE, RIGHT?
OKAY.
SO -- IN THE SLIDE I KIND OF EXPLAIN HOW TO DO IT, BUT
I'LL SHOW YOU REAL QUICK.
I WONDER IF I DID THAT.
SO LET'S CHECK.
SO, IF YOU GO HERE, AT THE MICROSOFT OFFICE BUTTON, AND
YOU GO TO PREPARE PROPERTIES.
SO, I DIDN'T EVEN DO THIS ONE.
PERFECT.
YOU SEE HOW IT AUTOMATICALLY -- IT PUT MY NAME THERE.
WELL, IT IS SOMETHING THAT I'M JUST WORKING ON.
IT'S REALLY JUST BRAINSTORMING FOR ME RIGHT NOW ANYWAY.
SO IT'S NOT -- IT'S TECHNICALLY AN OFFICIAL STATE
DOCUMENT BUT NOT YET OFFICIAL.
BUT I'M GOING TO CALL IT OFFICE OF ENTERPRISE
TECHNOLOGY AS THE AUTHOR.
AND IT'S ACCESSIBILITY TRAINING PLAN.
SO I'M TRYING TO IDENTIFY ALL THE DIFFERENT CLASSES AND
TRAININGS THAT ARE GOING TO HAPPEN.
OKAY.
AND, SO, REALLY, I THINK I ONLY NEED TO PUT THE AUTHOR
AND THE TITLE AND I CAN PUT SOME MORE INFORMATION, BUT
THIS IS JUST MY WORKING DOCUMENT.
AND NOW I'M DONE.
SO I'VE ASSIGNED THE PROPERTIES TO MY DOCUMENT.
AND WHENEVER -- IF ANYBODY WITH A SCREEN READER, IF I
WERE TO E-MAIL THIS TO KEN AND HE WERE TO OPEN IT UP,
THEN HE'D COME ACROSS AUTHOR, TANYA BELANGER, THIS IS
THE NAME OF THE DOCUMENT.
VERSUS EITHER BLANK, SO YOU SEE, OH, IT'S MADE BY
TANYA, OKAY, BUT WITHOUT A TITLE, LABEL TO IT,
PROPERTIES, HE WOULDN'T REALLY KNOW YET, YOU KNOW.
LIKE, OKAY, BLANK.
RIGHT?
IS THAT HOW IT WOULD COME ACROSS?
HE'S NODDING HIS HEAD YES.
OKAY.
SOUNDS RIGHT.
SO, I WANT TO GO BACK HERE.
OOPS.
[ FLIPPING THROUGH THE SLIDES ]
SO PRINCIPLE TWO, USE STYLES TO STRUCTURALLY MARK UP
YOUR DOCUMENT.
BEING THAT THIS GROUP IS A LOT OF COMMUNICATIONS
PEOPLE, I'M GUESSING YOU USE STYLES?
>> YES.
>> Tanya: THROW HANDS UP.
I'M ONE OF THOSE, LET'S SEE WHERE THE ROOM'S AT.
IS IT FAIR TO SAY ABOUT HALF THE ROOM OR MAYBE
THREE-FOURTHS OF THE ROOM IS FAMILIAR WITH USING
STYLES?
OKAY.
I HAD AN INTERESTING EXPERIENCE WITH OUR OWN
COMMUNICATIONS TEAM WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH THIS
EXERCISE.
BECAUSE THEY USE STYLES.
AND THEY HAVE CERTAIN STANDARDS FOR EACH AND EVERY
STYLE.
THAT'S PRETTY -- IS THAT HOW YOU GUYS DO IT, TOO?
OKAY.
WELL, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE POSTING TO THE WEB OR IF
YOU'RE LIKE THE LAST PERSON TO PUBLISH, YOU PRETTY MUCH
GET DOCUMENTS FROM A VARIETY OF PLACES, RIGHT?
AND DIFFERENT PROGRAMS IN THE DEPARTMENT, MAYBE REPORT
THAT WAS WRITTEN BY A CONTRACTOR OR A VARIETY OF
DIFFERENT FORMATS AND YOU GUYS HAVE TO SOMEHOW FIGURE
OUT A WAY TO MAKE IT LOOK CONSISTENT, REPRESENT THE
AGENCY, AND HAVE IT BE ACCESSIBLE.
RIGHT?
OKAY.
SO, STYLES -- SO, WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM COMMUNICATIONS
PEOPLE IS THAT OFTEN, BECAUSE THE DOCUMENT AUTHORS
DON'T EVEN USE STYLES THEMSELVES AND AREN'T ADEQUATELY
TRAINED IN HOW TO USE WORD ANYWAYS, THAT I HEAR THAT
PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE SPEND A LOT OF TIME
FIXING AND FORMATTING DOCUMENTS ALREADY ANYWAYS.
SO, FOR THE SAKE OF ACCESSIBILITY, STYLES ARE CRITICAL
BUT ALSO IT SOUNDS TO ME THAT FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR OWN
TIME MANAGEMENT, IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE EFFICIENT IF THE
PEOPLE IN YOUR AGENCY WERE TO USE STYLES ANYWAYS.
YES?
>> YES.
>> Tanya: YES?
OKAY.
SO, SINCE MOST OF YOU ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE STYLES
FOR THE MOST PART, I'M GOING TO JUST BE SOMEWHAT BASIC
ABOUT IT.
BUT IT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST -- IT IS LIKE THE
MOST IMPORTANT THING, I THINK, WITH DOCUMENTS BECAUSE
IT ESTABLISHES THE LOGICAL READING ORDER OF THE
DOCUMENT AND, OF COURSE, YOU CAN JUST UPDATE IT IN A
SNAP WITH USING A DIFFERENT STYLE SET, WHICH I JUST
FIND TO BE SO COOL.
SO, INSTEAD OF USING BOLD, ITALICS AND INCREASING FONT
SIZE TO EMPHASIZE YOUR TEXT, USE THE STYLES GALLERY.
YOU CAN MARK UP THE TITLE, HEADING LEVELS, THAT HELPS
WITH THE LOGICAL READING ORDER, THE TABLE OF CONTENTS.
I HOPE NOBODY IN THIS ROOM DOES THE DOT DOT DOT DOT DOT
DOT.
ARE WE MOVING ON FROM THAT.
I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT STILL DO THAT FOR THEIR
TABLE OF CONTENTS.
AND EVEN FOR NORMAL TEXT TO HAVE A STYLE FOR THE NORMAL
TEXT, BLOCK QUOTES, EVEN WORD EMPHASIS, AND IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT, TOO, NOT TO ADD EXTRA SPACE BETWEEN THE
PARAGRAPHS, TO JUST USE THE STYLES TO DO THAT.
ALSO, USE BULLETED LISTS TO EMPHASIZE INDIVIDUAL
POINTS.
AND USE THE NUMBERED LISTS TO DESCRIBE THE PROPER ORDER
FOR A SERIES OF STEPS IN A SEQUENCE.
YES.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION.
WHEN YOU'RE SAYING TO USE THE STYLES, IS IT OKAY IF YOU
DEFINE YOUR OWN STYLES, IF YOU MADE YOUR OWN HEADING
CALLED, LIKE, MY HEADING ONE?
>> Collette: WHAT WE FOUND OUT, WE THOUGHT IT WAS
OKAY, WE WERE TEACHING THAT.
AND WE FOUND OUT THAT IF WE ASSIGN -- IF WE MODIFY THE
STYLES THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE, IT TRANSFERS TO A
P.D.F. BETTER.
IF WE MAKE OUR OWN HEADINGS, LIKE HEADING ONE, HEADING
TWO, HEADING THREE, AND WE DEFINE EVERYTHING ALL ON OUR
OWN, IT WORKS WHEN I MAKE IT INTO A P.D.F., BUT IF I
LOCK MY WORD DOCUMENT AND PUT IT ON THE WEBSITE, THE
WEB -- WORD WON'T RECOGNIZE THOSE HEADERS.
OR THOSE HEADINGS, I'M SORRY.
I ALWAYS GET HEADINGS AND HEADERS, CALLED THE SAME
THING.
>> SO P.D.F. WILL WORK BUT NOT SO MUCH A WORD DOC?
>> USUALLY IF I DO SOMETHING IN WORD, THEN IT WILL
AUTOMATICALLY GO INTO P.D.F. LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO OR
NOT.
BUT THIS INSTANCE, IF YOU MAKE YOUR OWN HEADINGS, THEN
IT WILL NOT -- IF I'M PUTTING MY WORD DOCUMENT UP, OR
I'M SENDING MY WORD DOCUMENT TO SOMEBODY ELSE, BY
E-MAIL, THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO NAVIGATE THAT USING A
SCREEN READER AS EASILY AS THEY WOULD IF THEY WERE
USING A P.D.F. OR AS EASILY IF I HAD JUST MODIFIED THE
EXISTING STYLES.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Tanya: YES.
BY THE WAY, COLLETTE IS OUR LOCAL EXPERT ON THIS ONE
BECAUSE SHE'S -- SHE WORKS AT MINNESOTA MANAGEMENT AND
BUDGET AND HAS REALLY TAKEN ON A LEADERSHIP ROLE IN
DELVING INTO THESE ISSUES AND FIGURING THEM OUT.
AND I THOUGHT YOU GUYS WOULD REALLY WANT TO LEARN FROM
HER EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I'M SURE THAT YOU'RE EITHER IN
THAT EXPERIENCE OR ABOUT TO GO ON THAT JOURNEY OF
FIGURING OUT HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.
SO, COLLETTE, ARE YOU AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO ASK
QUESTIONS?
>> Collette: YES.
>> Tanya: OKAY.
I'VE BEEN SENDING PEOPLE TO HER PRETTY REGULARLY.
SORRY, JUST LIKE BOOKED YOUR SCHEDULE UP.
NO, JUST KIDDING.
OH.
LET'S SHOW YOU HOW TO DO STYLES REAL QUICK.
ONCE I FIGURED OUT HOW TO DO STYLES, FOR THE LONGEST
TIME, STYLES DROVE ME NUTS.
BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO MODIFY THEM.
AND IT ALWAYS DID WEIRD, DIFFERENT THINGS.
THERE, THERE'S MY STYLES GALLERY.
SO, HERE'S MY TITLE.
USUALLY I WOULD JUST TYPE IT, YOU KNOW, THE NORMAL,
WHATEVER TITLE IT IS, AND THEN I'LL HIGHLIGHT IT AND GO
TO THE STYLES GALLERY AND CLICK TITLE AND THEN IT'S
ASSIGNED A TITLE.
ASSIGN THIS TEXT AS THE TITLE.
SO IT'S PROVIDING THAT STRUCTURE TO THE DOCUMENT THAT
THE SCREEN READER NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO DIFFERENTIATE THE
TEXT.
OTHERWISE IT'S JUST ONE BIG BLOB OF ONGOING TEXT.
MAYBE NOT A BLOB.
A BOX OF ONGOING.
VISUALLY I CAN SEE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS, AND THAT'S
REALLY WHAT THE STRUCTURAL MARKUP PROVIDES.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT'S WHAT IT PROVIDES TO THE
DOCUMENT.
AM I DESCRIBING IT RIGHT?
>> Collette: CAN I ADD ONE THING?
>> Tanya: YEAH.
>> Collette: THE REASON YOU WANT TO USE STYLES, TANYA
HASN'T SAID, IS BECAUSE IF YOU -- STYLE THINGS IS
HEADINGS, KEN CAN GO THROUGH USING A SCREEN READER AND
JUST GO FROM HEADING TO HEADING TO HEADING BY HITTING H
H H H, SO, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE HEADINGS IN THERE
AND YOU JUST INCREASE YOUR FONT, THEN THERE'S NO
NAVIGATIONAL ISSUES IN THERE.
IF YOU'VE GOT A 600-PAGE DOCUMENT AND HE'S GOT TO READ
SOMETHING ON PAGE 450, HE'D HAVE TO READ THROUGH THE
ENTIRE DOCUMENT.
BY PUTTING HEADINGS IN THERE AND DOING STYLES LIKE
SHE'S SHOWING YOU, IT GIVES IT A NAVIGATION.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE STYLES ARE.
THAT'S WHAT THOSE HEADINGS ARE PROVIDING.
I'M SORRY.
>> Tanya: YOU SHOULD JUST STAND UP WITH ME.
I WENT TO COLLETTE'S TRAINING FIRST.
SO, SHE DOES HAVE AN ONGOING TRAINING AT HER AGENCY.
IT'S REALLY GOOD.
SO, THE HEADINGS, SO I SHOWED YOU THE TITLE, AND THEN
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE, THIS IS GOING TO BE MY HEADING ONE.
NOTICE HOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE GALLERY UP HERE, THE
STYLE GALLERY, BECAUSE I HIGHLIGHTED TEXT THAT I
ALREADY ASSIGNED TO HEADING LEVEL ONE, IT'S SHOWING ME
UP THERE, BEING HIGHLIGHTED AROUND HEADING ONE IN
YELLOW.
AND, OF COURSE, YOU PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW, IF YOU ARE
USING STYLES IS THAT YOU CAN, WHICH IT TOOK ME FOREVER
TO REALIZE, AND THAT'S WHY I NEVER LIKED USING STYLES
BECAUSE IT ALWAYS MADE MY DOCUMENTS LOOK CRAZY, BUT NOW
I KNOW THAT YOU CAN JUST MODIFY IT, RIGHT?
AND CHANGE THINGS WITHIN IT.
AND ALSO ONCE YOU MARK UP THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT, OF
COURSE, YOU CAN CHANGE THE STYLE SET, WHICH I'M JUST
HAVING A HARD TIME HERE.
BUT, OKAY.
SO YOU SEE HEADING LEVELS.
LET'S SEE.
THIS ONE IS ASSIGNED A HEADING LEVEL TWO.
LET'S GO AHEAD AND VERIFY IT.
YUP, IT GOES RIGHT TO MY STYLE GALLERY, HEADING TWO.
I WONDER IF I MIGHT HAVE PUT AN EMPHASIS ON THAT ONE.
I DID.
INSTEAD OF JUST PUTTING B, YOU KNOW, JUST MAKING IT
BOLD, I WENT IN AND SAID STRONG, IT MAKES IT BOLD FOR
ANYBODY VISUALLY, BUT IT ALSO, FOR THE SCREEN READER
THAT'S READING IT, IT APPLIES THAT EXTRA -- IF IT WAS
JUST BOLD, IT WOULDN'T SAY, THIS TEXT IS BOLD.
IT WOULD JUST SAY, THE TEXT.
  SO THERE'S NO DIFFERENTIATION.
BUT NOW THAT I'VE ASSIGNED STRONG TO IT, AND IT LOOKS
BOLD, THEN ALSO THE SCREEN READER CAN EMPHASIZE THAT,
TOO, OR AT LEAST INDICATE TO THE USER THAT IT'S AN
EMPHASIZED TEXT.
>> WHERE DO YOU ASSIGN THAT?
>> Tanya: RIGHT --
>> WHEN YOU'RE MODIFYING, WHICH PART IS IT IN?
>> Tanya: IT'S RIGHT IN THE STYLES GALLERY.
SO, HERE, I'LL JUST USE THIS WORD RIGHT HERE.
AND I'M GOING TO ASSIGN -- SO RIGHT NOW, YOU SEE IT'S
NORMAL TEXT.
OF COURSE, YOU CAN MODIFY ANYTHING, ANY ONE OF THESE
STYLES.
BUT I WANT IT TO BE STRONG.
RIGHT?
SO, I'VE JUST MADE IT STRONG.
IT BOLDED IT.
AND IT HAS THAT EMPHASIS, THE UNDERLYING EMPHASIS
BEHIND IT.
>> OKAY.
  SO IT'S AN ACTUAL ONE YOU CAN CHOOSE FROM?
ALL RIGHT.
>> Tanya: YES.
JED.
>> DO YOU KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY THAT YOU CAN MAP, LIKE,
SAY YOU'RE USING CONTROL B TO APPLY BOLD, CAN YOU HAVE
THAT MAPPED TO THAT STRONG STYLE INSTEAD?
>> Tanya: OH, LIKE KIND OF A REVERSE THING?
>> YEAH.
SO THAT YOU CAN JUST HIT CONTROL B AND IT WOULD
ACTUALLY APPLY THE STYLE INSTEAD OF HAVING TO GO FROM
THE STYLE MENU.
>> Tanya: NO.
>> IT SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING THAT MICROSOFT SHOULD HAVE
DONE UP FRONT.
>> Tanya: YOU KNOW, THEY'RE FIGURING THINGS OUT.
I KNOW YOU PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY TAKEN THIS ON.
SO THAT'S THE COMPLICATED THING.
THERE'S SOME FUNNY GLITCHES.
>> Collette: NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
>> Tanya: AND ONCE YOU START DELVING INTO IT, YOU
START TO REALIZE THAT THEY'RE THERE.
AND, SO, I THINK IT'S JUST REALLY EVOLVING.
>> OKAY.
>> Tanya: AND I EVEN KNOW THAT A LOT OF THESE
COMPANIES, LIKE MICROSOFT, HAVE A WHOLE ACCESSIBILITY
TEAM AND THEY STILL -- IT'S LIKE THEY GET IT IN SOME
REGARD, BUT THEY FORGET IT IN A WHOLE OTHER PART AND
IT'S JUST BACKWARDS.
LIKE COLLETTE SAID, YOU CAN MARK UP, IF I HEARD YOU
CORRECTLY, YOU CAN MAKE A PERFECTLY ACCESSIBLE WORD
DOCUMENT BUT THEN IF YOU LOCK IT UP, THEN IT'S NOT
ACCESSIBLE.
>> Collette: NO.
IF YOU MAKE YOUR OWN STYLES.
>> Tanya: IF YOU MAKE YOUR OWN STYLES.
SO, THAT'S JUST A COMPLICATED GLITCH.
>> Collette: YOU WOULD WANT TO LOCK IT UP WHEN YOU
PUT IT ON THE WEB.
YOU WOULD WANT TO PASSWORD PROTECT IT.
FOR USE.
CAN I SHOW THEM A QUICK TRICK?
>> Tanya: YES.
>> Collette: I HAVE A QUICK TRICK FOR YOU.
LET'S SAY YOU ALREADY HAVE A DOCUMENT THAT YOU ALREADY
CREATED AND YOU LIKE THE HEADING ON IT, LET'S SAY THE
HEADING YOU HAVE ON IT IS ALREADY RED -- IS PURPLE.
OR SOME COLOR.
ORANGE.
AND YOU LIKE THAT.
YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO RE-CREATE IT.
YOU'VE ALREADY GOT THE WHOLE DOCUMENT CREATED.
YOU DON'T WANT TO RE-CREATE THAT.
BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO YOUR MODIFY,
STYLE.
YOU KNOW, IN ORDER FOR ME TO MAKE THAT A HEADING, I
WOULD HAVE TO MODIFY THE STYLE TO DO THAT.
LET'S SAY I WANT ALL HEADING ONEs TO LOOK EXACTLY
LIKE REFERENCES DOES.
BUT I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE WORK
OF RE-CREATING A WHOLE NEW TEMPLATE FOR IT.
IF I JUST HIGHLIGHT -- THIS IS A REAL SHORTCUT AND IT
WORKS GREAT.
SO, I WILL HIGHLIGHT IT, GO TO HEADING TWO, I'LL RIGHT
CLICK, WHERE IT SAYS UPDATE HEADING 2 TO MATCH
SELECTION, IT NOW UPDATED MY STYLE FOR HEADING 2.
NOW, ALL MY HEADING 2s WILL CHANGE THE WHOLE
DOCUMENT.
I DIDN'T HAVE TO CREATE A NEW STYLE, I DIDN'T HAVE TO
WORRY ABOUT GOING TO MODIFY, MAKE IT ORANGE, MAKE IT
BOLD.
I WAS ABLE TO JUST TO HIGHLIGHT, SAY MODIFY IT.
SO MODIFY, HEADING 2 TO MAKE IT.
  SO IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A DOCUMENT THAT'S CREATED AND
THE USER LIKES THOSE -- THEY LIKE PINK, LIKE OUR OPEN
ENROLLMENT DOCUMENT HAS THE PINK HEADERS ON IT, I THINK
IT'S UGLY, BUT THEY HAVE ALL THESE PINK HEADINGS IN
THERE, AND WHEN I GOT THE DOCUMENT, TRYING TO MAKE IT
ACCESSIBLE, I DIDN'T HAVE TO GO CREATE PINK -- I DIDN'T
HAVE TO MODIFY ALL MY HEADINGS TO BE PINK.
I JUST HAD TO SELECT THAT ONCE, LIKE I DID, RIGHT CLICK
IT, AND WHERE IT SAYS UPDATE, TO MATCH SELECTION, IT
SAYS STRONG HERE, BUT UPDATE HEADING TO MATCH
SELECTION, I JUST DID THAT AND IT DID IT AUTOMATICALLY.
I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO AS MUCH WORK ON THE STYLES.
SO THAT'S -- AND THAT WORKS WELL FOR DOCUMENTS THAT ARE
ALREADY PREMADE.
>> Tanya: THANKS, COLLETTE.
OKAY.
>> CAN I ASK, OKAY, SO WHICH WAS NOT ACCESSIBLE AND
WHICH WAS?
I MEAN --
>> Collette: IF I CREATED MY OWN STYLES.
>> DIDN'T YOU JUST DO THAT?
>> Collette: NO.
I MODIFIED A STYLE.
YOU CAN CREATE A NEW STYLE BY THIS LITTLE BUTTON HERE
THAT SAYS CHANGE STYLES.
YOU GO DOWN HERE.
AND I BELIEVE THIS IS IT, NEW STYLE.
IF I DO A NEW STYLE, I CAN CALL IT COLLETTE'S HEADING.
AND THEN I WOULD CREATE A STYLE OUT OF IT.
NOW, IF I APPLY THE STYLE TO THE DOCUMENT, SO, ALL OF
MY HEADING 1s, SO COLLETTE'S HEADING 1, IT WOULD BE,
SO ALL MY HEADING 1s NOW ARE NOT HEADING 1 ANYMORE,
THEY'RE COLLETTE'S HEADING 1, WHEN I SAVE THAT DOCUMENT
OUT, WORD DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THOSE AS HEADINGS.
IT WILL TRANSFER IT TO THE P.D.F. CORRECTLY, BUT IT
WON'T -- IF I'M USING THE WORD DOCUMENT, AND I'M
PROTECTED IT AND I'M GOING H, H, H, TRYING TO GET MY
HEADING TO HEADING TO HEADING, IT WILL SAY, THERE ARE
NO HEADINGS IN THIS DOCUMENT.
AND WE WANT IT TO SHOW, THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE PART.
WE WANT -- ESPECIALLY THE HEADINGS ARE THE MOST
IMPORTANT, I THINK, MYSELF.
>> YEAH, SO THAT'S JUST SORT OF A -- FOR THE HEADINGS,
IS WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT, CREATING
YOUR OWN STYLES, CORRECT?
>> Collette: DON'T CREATE YOUR OWN STYLES, JUST
MODIFY.
YUP, JUST MODIFY EXISTING STYLES.
>> Jamie: ONE OTHER THING.
DON'T MODIFY NORMAL.
THE WHOLE DOCUMENT, IT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO, YEAH, JUST TRY NOT TO MODIFY NORMAL.
WHATEVER YOU DO.
BECAUSE THE DOCUMENT WORD USES THAT FOR THE BASIS OF
EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO, YEAH.
JUST A HINT.
>> SO, I WAS JUST GOING TO MENTION TIPS, SHE MENTIONED
THE STRONG.
BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF A HTML TERM, THAT EMPHASIS WOULD
BE THE EQUIVALENT FOR ITALIC.
THE EMPHASIS STYLE.
WOULD BE THE EQUIVALENT.
>> Tanya: YOU WOULD DO THE SAME THING FOR ITALICS?
>> YES, YOU WOULD USE EMPHASIS.
>> INSTEAD OF ITALICS.
>> Tanya: RIGHT, YES, IN THE STYLES GALLERY, THEY
HAVE -- SHOOT, I SHOULD GO BACK.
MIGHT AS WELL JUST SHOW YOU.
SEE, HERE WE HAVE STRONG, LIKEWISE, THERE IS ALSO --
WHERE DID -- THERE'S EMPHASIS RIGHT HERE FOR ITALICS,
SUBTLE EMPHASIS, SO, EVERYTHING SHOULD OCCUR WITHIN
STYLES, IF POSSIBLE, TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, IF YOU
WANT ACCESSIBLE.
YES.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT MODIFYING THE STYLES.
DOES IT STAY SPECIFIC TO JUST THAT DOCUMENT OR DOES IT
STAY IN YOUR WORD SO EVERY TIME YOU OPEN A NEW DOCUMENT
YOUR STYLES ARE MODIFIED?
>> Collette: GENERALLY IT WILL STAY WITH YOUR
DOCUMENT ONLY.
AND IF YOU PASS IT ON, IT WILL STAY WITH THE DOCUMENT.
IF YOU WANT IT TO BE IN YOUR GLOBAL, IF I DO A MODIFY,
DOWN HERE THERE'S A -- IT SAYS ONLY IN THIS DOCUMENT OR
NEW DOCUMENTS BASED ON THIS TEMPLATE.
SO, IT WILL CHANGE -- IF YOU CLICK THAT, IF YOU
CHANGE -- MODIFY THE STYLE, AND YOU CLICK THAT SECOND
BULLET POINT -- OR RADIO BUTTON, THANK YOU, IF YOU HIT
THE SECOND RADIO BUTTON, THEN IT WILL CHANGE THE
TEMPLATE ITSELF, SO EVERY TIME YOU OPEN THAT TEMPLATE,
IT WILL CHANGE THAT.
AND THAT WOULD HELP IN TEMPLATES THAT YOU'RE PUTTING,
LIKE, AS YOUR NORMAL TEMPLATE THAT EVERYBODY WOULD BE
USING.
YOU'D CREATE A D.O.T., HAVE IT DO THAT, THEN EVERYBODY
WOULD BE OPENING THE SAME TEMPLATE WITH THE SAME
STYLES.
>> Tanya: ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
YES.
>> I'VE GOT A QUESTION.
>> CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE THAT YOU WERE SHOWING?
>> Tanya: THE SLIDE?
>> YEAH.
YOU MENTIONED ABOUT THE -- DON'T HAVE EXTRA SPACE
BETWEEN THE PARAGRAPHS, USE STYLE FOR THIS.
WHAT DOES THE SCREEN READER READ IF THERE'S --
>> Collette: IF THERE'S AN EXTRA PARAGRAPH -- MOST
TEMPLATES ARE SET UP SO THAT YOU HAVE -- TYPE YOUR
PARAGRAPH, THEN HIT ENTER, IT GIVES YOU A SPACE, THEN
HIT ENTER AGAIN.
>> YEAH.
>> Collette: WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, YOU WANT TO HAVE
YOUR STYLE THAT YOU HAVE THAT EXTRA SPACE BUILT INTO
IT.
IN YOUR MODIFY.
LET ME JUST GET TO SOME TEXT HERE.
SO, IF I RIGHT CLICK AND MODIFY THIS, AND I GO DOWN TO
FORMAT, PARAGRAPH, AND ADD 12 POINTS BELOW IT, SO THAT
WAY -- OR 12 POINTS AFTER IT, SO AFTER I'M DONE TYPING
THAT PARAGRAPH AND I HIT ENTER, IT'S AUTOMATICALLY
GOING TO ADD 12 POINTS AFTER IT.
AND, SO, THEN I DON'T HAVE TO ADD THAT EXTRA SPACE.
AND THE SAME WITH, YOU'LL SEE IF I LOOK AT -- LET ME
SHOW YOU HEADER.
OR HEADING.
IF I SAY HEADER, JUST KNOW I'M SAYING HEADING.
[ Laughter ]
IF I RIGHT CLICK ON THAT AND DO MODIFY, YOU SEE RIGHT
NOW THERE'S NO TEXT -- THERE'S NO SPACING UNDERNEATH
MY -- I HAVE -- I HAVE HEADING 1 THAT CONCEPTUAL
FRAMEWORK, THERE'S NO SPACE UNDERNEATH THAT WHOLE
THING.
SO, WHAT I WOULD HAVE TO DO NORMALLY IF I DIDN'T KNOW
ABOUT STYLES, I WOULD HAVE TO ADD -- I WOULD DO A BREAK
AFTER IT TO ADD THAT PARAGRAPH RIGHT BELOW IT.
INSTEAD, GO TO MODIFY.
FORMAT.
PARAGRAPH.
OKAY, NOW THIS SAYS 30 POINTS ABOVE IT AND FOUR POINTS
AFTER IT, SO THERE ACTUALLY MUST BE A LITTLE BIT OF
SPACE HERE.
AND, AS YOU CAN SEE, OUR MARGIN IS UP HERE AT ONE.
SO THERE MUST BE SPACE ABOVE IT ALSO.
BUT I'M JUST GOING TO EXAGGERATE IT A LITTLE BIT AND
MAKE 18 POINTS BELOW IT.
THERE'S MY POINT.
SO NOW I'VE CREATED MY HEADING AND I'VE CREATED THE
SPACE BELOW WITHOUT HAVING TO ADD A PARAGRAPH BREAK.
WHAT HAPPENS IS JAWS WILL -- OR SCREEN READERS WILL
RECOGNIZE EVERY SINGLE PARAGRAPH AS A P TAG, A
PARAGRAPH TAG.
AND IF I HAVE THOSE EXTRA LINE BREAKS IN THERE, THEN
WHEN I'M GOING PARAGRAPH TO PARAGRAPH TO PARAGRAPH WITH
THE SCREEN READER, I'M GOING TO THAT BLANK PARAGRAPH
EVERY TIME.
SO I'M NOT READING ANYTHING ON THAT PARAGRAPH.
I START AT ONE PARAGRAPH, IT STARTS READING, IT WILL
START READING THIS FIRST PARAGRAPH AND THEN IT WILL GET
TO THE BLANK, IT WILL SAY -- I'M NOT SURE IF IT SAYS
PARAGRAPH, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT SAYS.
>> Ken: I THINK IT DOES SAY PARAGRAPH.
>> Collette: DOES IT SAY PARAGRAPH?
>> Jamie: PARAGRAPH OR MORE COMMONLY BLANK.
>> Collette: YEAH.
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO HIT IT AGAIN TO GET TO A
PARAGRAPH.
SO YOU'VE GOT THE EXTRA LINE.
SO IF YOU ADD THE SPACE BUILT IN --
[ Laughter ]
-- THEN YOU DON'T -- DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
>> Ken: SO BASICALLY, BY USING THE PROPER TOOLS,
YOU'RE MAKING IT SO THAT I CAN USE EVERY TOOL AVAILABLE
TO ME WITHIN MY SCREEN READING TOOL.
IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU MAKE YOUR OWN, THEN I GET A LOT OF
EXTRA BLANKS BLANKS BLANKS BLANKS BLANKS, WE HEAR BLANK
A LOT BECAUSE PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN STUFF ALL THE TIME
AND IF PEOPLE WOULD JUST USE THEIR TOOLS AS THEY'RE
DESIGNED TO BE USED, OUR TOOLS ARE DESIGNED TO BE BASED
ON THE TOOLS.
SO IT WOULD WORK FLAWLESSLY.
AND I WOULDN'T GET A BUNCH OF EXCESS JUNK TO HAVE TO
DEAL WITH.
AND, AGAIN, IF I'M DEALING WITH A ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT,
IT'S NOT TOO BAD.
BUT IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLE-PAGE DOCUMENTS, 600-PAGE
DOCUMENTS, IT GETS PRETTY TEDIOUS TO LISTEN TO BLANK
BLANK BLANK FOR -- AND NOT MOVE AT ALL.
ALL THE TIME.
>> Collette: AND YOU WANT TO REMEMBER THAT EVERYTHING
SHE'S TEACHING TODAY AND TELLING YOU ABOUT TODAY, IT
GOES WITH ALL OF YOUR DOCUMENTS, WHETHER YOU E-MAIL
THEM OUT OR WHETHER YOU'RE PUTTING THEM ON THE WEB
BECAUSE WE'RE STILL REQUIRED BY THE ACCESSIBILITY
STANDARDS THAT IF I E-MAIL SOMEBODY A DOCUMENT, I DON'T
KNOW THAT KEN'S ON THE OTHER END OF THAT DOCUMENT
RECEIVING IT BECAUSE, NUMBER ONE, I'M NOT ALLOWED TO
ASK HIM, ARE YOU DISABLED AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE
TO READ THIS?
YOU KNOW, I'M NOT ALLOWED TO -- I NEED TO JUST MAKE THE
ASSUMPTION AS A DEVELOPER OF DOCUMENTS AND THE WEB THAT
THE PERSON ON THAT OTHER END PROBABLY HAS A DISABILITY
OR COULD POSSIBLY HAVE A DISABILITY.
WHETHER IT'S AN ELDERLY PERSON THAT HAS POOR EYESIGHT,
WHETHER IT'S KEN OR JAMIE THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST CAN'T
ACCESS THE DOCUMENT.
SO, IF I SEND AN E-MAIL OUT WITH A DOCUMENT THAT'S NOT
ACCESSIBLE, THEY'RE GOING TO SEND ME AN E-MAIL BACK AND
SAY, I CAN'T READ THIS DOCUMENT.
CAN YOU SEND IT TO ME IN AN ACCESSIBLE FORMAT?
NOW, HAD YOU CREATED THE ACCESSIBLE FORMAT WITH THE
STYLES AND EVERYTHING INCLUDED RIGHT AWAY, YOUR WORK IS
DONE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO REDO THE DOCUMENT, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S
A 40-PAGE DOCUMENT.
NOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT -- REDO IT THE CORRECT WAY.
IF YOU'D DONE IT THE FIRST TIME THE CORRECT WAY, OR
YOUR STAFF HAD DONE IT, THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE HAVING TO
REDO YOUR WORK.
SO IT DOES MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER.
>> WHAT DOES -- WHAT DOES KEN HEAR BEYOND THE HEADINGS
LIKE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HEADING 1, IF HE'S JUMPING
FROM HEADING TO HEADING, IF YOU'RE USING, LIKE, STYLES,
LIKE HEADING 2, HEADING 3?
>> Collette: IT WILL SAY, I WANT KEN TO PIPE IN, TOO,
IF I GET ANYTHING WRONG, IT WILL SAY, THERE ARE SIX --
WHEN HE OPENS A P.D.F. OR A WORD DOCUMENT, IT WILL SAY,
THERE ARE SIX HEADINGS IN THIS DOCUMENT.
AND THEN I CAN PULL -- I CAN DO A CONTROL ON MY
KEYBOARD, BRING UP ALL THE HEADING 1s IN A LIST OR
ALL THE HEADING -- ALL THE HEADINGS OR ALL THE HEADING
3s AND I CAN GO FROM HEADING TO HEADING TO READ THEM
WHETHER THEY'RE 1, 2, 3s, I THINK IT GOES TO 5, ADOBE
ACROBAT GOES TO 5, HE CAN DO IT BY LINKS, I THINK IT'S
L.
>> Ken: I THINK SO.
>> Collette: HE CAN GO FROM LINK TO LINK TO LINK.
HE CAN DO TABLES, T, FOR TABLES.
GO FROM TABLE TABLE TABLE TABLE.
PARAGRAPH.
GRAPHIC GRAPHIC GRAPHIC.
>> Jamie: LIST LIST LIST.
>> Collette: LIST LIST LIST, YEAH, THANK YOU.
>> Jamie: IMAGE IMAGE IMAGE.
>> Collette: SO THERE'S -- SO, YOU KNOW, THE STYLES
THAT YOU'RE CREATING HERE HELP HIM.
YUP.
>> YEAH.
WHEN HE -- IF SOMEONE WERE TO TURN OFF THEIR IMAGES ON
THE WEB PAGES, THIS IS A QUESTION WE HAVE ABOUT
GRAPHICS, RIGHT NOW WE'RE CREATING THE NAVIGATION TO
REFLECT, LIKE, IF WE'VE GOT IMAGES, THAT WILL LINK TO
ANOTHER PAGE SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THAT IMAGE SAYS AND
WHERE IT GOES, BUT IF HE WERE TO TURN OFF THE IMAGES,
WOULD HE STILL HERE THE ALT TEXT?
>> Collette: WOULD YOU, KEN, I DON'T KNOW?
>> Collette: IF I'VE TURNED OFF MY IMAGES ON MY
SCREEN, WILL YOU STILL SEE THE ALT TEXT?
OR DOES IT IGNORE THE ALT TEXT?
>> Ken: YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN HONESTLY KNOW THE
ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.
>> Jamie: I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
>> Collette: CAN YOU ANSWER IT, JAMIE?
>> Jamie: IT DEPENDS ON YOUR -- SO, THIS IS FOR -- ON
THE INTERNET?
>> YES.
>> Jamie: AND YOU'RE JUST USING THE INTERNET AND NOT
HAVING A WORD DOCUMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
>> CORRECT.
SO, WE HAVE, LIKE, ICONS THAT MAYBE IF YOU CLICK ON IT,
YOU'LL GO TO ANOTHER PAGE.
>> Jamie: OKAY, SO YOU'RE JUST SPECIFICALLY TALKING
ABOUT A WEB PAGE.
>> UM-HUM.
>> Jamie: OKAY.
IT DEPENDS ON YOUR -- WHAT YOU ACTUALLY CODED YOUR ALT
TEXT.
IF YOU'RE IN FIREFOX, IT WILL NOT BECAUSE FIREFOX DOES
NOT USE ALT TEXT.
I MEAN, THE TOOL TIP, IF YOU WERE TO MOUSE OVER IT, THE
TOOL TIP WON'T APPEAR.
BUT IF YOU TURN OFF YOUR IMAGES, THE ALT TEXT WILL BE
THERE.
>> OKAY.
>> Jamie: AND THEN -- AND THEN THE SAME THING FOR
INTERNET EXPLORER.
NOW, IF YOU'RE DOING A MOUSE OVER, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU
WILL SEE THE ALT TEXT IN INTERNET EXPLORER, BUT IN
FIREFOX YOU WILL NOT SEE THE NIFTY LITTLE TEXT THAT
POPS UP, THE TOOL TIP.
YOU NEED TO CODE IT DIFFERENTLY IN FIREFOX AND THE SAME
GOES FOR OPERA AND SO ON AND MOST OTHER BROWSERS EXCEPT
FOR INTERNET EXPLORER.
MOST OF THEM USE DIFFERENT TAG TO ACTUALLY DISPLAY THE
TOOL TIP.
AND RIGHT NOW I'M A LITTLE BLANKING OUT, BUT I'D BE
HAPPY TO E-MAIL IT OUT.
THE ACTUAL CODE.
BUT RIGHT NOW I'M JUST, LIKE, BLANKING BECAUSE I'M ON
DOCUMENTS, SO, SORRY.
>> Tanya: WERE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
THESE ARE GREAT QUESTIONS.
AND WE HAVE -- WE'RE HAVING A TRANSCRIPT OF THEM, TOO,
SO -- I MEAN, WE CAN MAKE THE TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE TO
HAVE THESE Q & As ON PAPER IF YOU WANT TO HAVE ACCESS
TO THEM, TOO, JUST SO YOU KNOW.
GOOD QUESTIONS.
KEEP THEM COMING.
YES.
>> Ken: GO AHEAD.
>> I DO MOST OF MY WORK IN IN DESIGN, ADOBE IN DESIGN.
>> Tanya: IN DESIGN.
>> YEAH.
I IMPORT A FAIR AMOUNT OF WORD DOCUMENTS AND I EXPORT
TO P.D.F. POST.
>> Collette: WE HAVEN'T HAD SUPER GREAT LUCK WITH IN
DESIGN.
PART OF THE REASON, A LOT OF PEOPLE CREATE IN DESIGN
WITH -- INSTEAD OF USING THE TEXT WRAP, THEY DO
INDIVIDUAL TEXT BOXES FOR EVERYTHING, AND IT WON'T READ
THE COLUMNS VERY WELL BECAUSE THEY'RE TEXT BLOCKS --
TEXT BOXES INSTEAD OF CHARACTER FLOW.
YOU CAN -- THERE ARE TOOLS WITH ADOBE AND THERE'S OTHER
TOOLS IF YOU'RE USING IN DESIGN OR ANOTHER PRODUCT,
EVEN WORD, THAT YOU CAN PULL IT UP IN ADOBE AND
REFORMAT YOUR TAGS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO,
EVERY TIME WE HAVE A DOCUMENT, SOMEBODY COMES TO US
WITH IN DESIGN, WE HAVE TO REFORMAT IT MANUALLY WITH
ADOBE.
WE CAN'T USE IT NATIVELY.
>> Ken: AND I ALSO ENCOUNTERED A PROBLEM WITH THE
DEED LIBRARY.
I USE A LOT OF RESEARCH IN MY WORK, AND I HAVE THE
LIBRARIAN DO SOME BASIC RESEARCH FOR ME.
AND THEN SHE SENDS ME THE LINK TO THE DOCUMENTS.
SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS I GET WERE IN P.D.F. AND I
COULDN'T READ THEM.
AND THEY WERE READING IMPROPERLY.
THEY WERE READING SEGMENT BY SEGMENT BUT JUMBLING THEM
TOGETHER, IN OTHER WORDS, NOT IDENTIFYING THE COLUMNS,
BUT READING IT COMPLETELY ACROSS SO I'D GET PIECES OF
COLUMNS AS IF IT WERE ONE SENTENCE.
AND THOSE WERE IN DATABASE JOURNAL FILES THAT SHOULD
NOT BE THAT WAY.
AND WHEN WE DID THE RESEARCH, BECAUSE I COMPLAINED
ABOUT THOSE NOT BEING ACCESSIBLE WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE
BEEN ACCESSIBLE, THE RESULT I GOT WAS THEY WERE CREATED
IN IN DESIGN.
SO, THAT'S THE WORKING PROBLEMS THAT I ENCOUNTER WITH
THOSE TYPES OF DOCUMENTS.
>> Collette: WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE IN
DESIGN IS AN ADOBE PRODUCT.
YOU KNOW?
THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.
YEAH.
>> SO I WORK IN IN DESIGN AS WELL AND THAT'S BECAUSE
I'M DOING PUBLICATIONS AND SUCH THINGS.
SO, WORD JUST DOESN'T GIVE US THE CAPABILITY TO DO THE
DESIGN THAT WE WANT TO DO.
WE'VE BEEN RESEARCHING IT.
AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS AVAILABLE AND THERE'S SOME
INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET ABOUT HOW TO ACTUALLY TAG
YOUR DOCUMENT IN IN DESIGN AND YOU CAN INDIVIDUALLY,
YOU CAN ACTUALLY PUT IT INTO YOUR STYLES SO THAT IT
WOULD KNOW, SAY, HEADING 1 IS ALWAYS YOUR HEADING 1 AND
IT WILL PUT THAT IN.
IN ADDITION, YOU CAN DO ALT TEXT AND TAGGING THROUGH
THE DOC.
IT TAKES WORK.
DEFINITELY TAKES WORK.
IT DOES.
IF A USER KNOWS HOW TO USE IN DESIGN PROPERLY AND CAN
FLOW THE COLUMNS INSTEAD OF DOING THE TEXT BOXES, THEN
GENERALLY IT'S OKAY.
MOST USERS OF IN DESIGN AREN'T TRAINED PROPERLY, JUST
LIKE MOST USERS OF WORD AND MOST USERS OF EVERYTHING
ELSE HAVEN'T HAD FORMAL TRAINING, SO THEY'RE USING --
THEY'RE USING THESE TEXT BOXES AND WEIRD FLOWS AND
STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND THAT'S WHAT WORD CREATES -- WHERE IT CREATES THE
PROBLEM.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S NOT THAT IN DESIGN CAN'T DO IT,
IT'S JUST THAT THE USER, JUST LIKE IN WORD, HAS TO KNOW
HOW TO USE STYLES.
>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, YOU'D HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO DO
IT.
AND THEN WE DEFINITELY USE ACROBAT.
WE'RE WORKING ON THIS BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A
TIME-CONSUMING CHALLENGE BUT IN ACROBAT YOU CAN
DEFINITELY ALSO KIND OF TOUCH THINGS UP.
>> Collette: RIGHT, RIGHT.
JED.
>> THERE'S A GOOD DOCUMENT THAT ONE OF MY CO-WORKERS
FOUND THAT USING IN DESIGN C.S.4 AND I CAN SEND THAT TO
MOLLY TO ADD TO THE WEBSITE ABOUT THIS PRESENTATION.
BUT ONE THING THAT ADOBE ACTUALLY ADMITTED IN THIS
DOCUMENT IS THAT THE HEADINGS AND THE ALT TAGS, ONE OF
THE OTHER, OR MAYBE BOTH, A FRIEND OF MINE AT THE MET
COUNCIL I WAS TALKING WITH ABOUT THIS, THEY'VE HAD A
TERRIBLE TIME WITH THIS AS WELL, IS SOMETIMES WHEN YOU
DO CREATE THE P.D.F. FILE, IT WILL JUMBLE OR JUST DROP
OFF THE ALT TAGS OR THE HEADINGS, ONE OR THE OTHER OR
BOTH OF THEM.
THEN THE NEXT TIME DO YOU IT, IT MIGHT JUMBLE A
DIFFERENT SET OF THEM.
  SO THERE'S DEFINITELY SOME KIND OF FLAW IN C.S.4 WITH
IT NOT DOING THE STUFF RIGHT.
EVEN IF YOU SET THE DOCUMENT UP TOTALLY RIGHT, YOU CAN
GET A DIFFERENT RESULT THE NEXT TIME YOU CREATE IT.
SO, THAT WOULD SEEM LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU
KNOW, ADOBE OBVIOUSLY WILL BE ADDRESSING IN THE FUTURE,
BUT IT'S DEFINITELY A PROBLEM AND YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO GO
INTO ACROBAT AFTERWARDS AND DOUBLE-CHECK.
>> Collette: AND YOU CAN -- YOU CAN MAKE A COMPLETELY
INACCESSIBLE DOCUMENT ACCESSIBLE WITH ACROBAT, YOU
KNOW, AFTER THE FACT.
IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, BUT YOU CAN DO IT.
YEAH.
>> I WAS WONDERING, WHAT ABOUT IF YOU EXPORT A TEXT
FROM ADOBE, YOU CAN EXPORT TEXT ONLY?
DO YOU KNOW, KEN OR JAMIE?
>> Collette: TO GET INTO A WORD DOCUMENT.
>> JUST A TEXT.
IT'S PLAIN TEXT.
>> Collette: A TEXT FILE IS FINE.
A TXT -- A TXT IS FINE, EXCEPT THAT THERE'S NO STYLES
ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
>> THERE'S NO STYLES.
>> Collette: THERE'S NO STYLES ASSOCIATED WITH IT, SO
IF I'VE GOT A DOCUMENT THAT'S A TXT, THAT'S MORE THAN
ONE PAGE, LIKE KEN SAID, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO READ.
IT'S NOT -- IT'S ACCESSIBLE BUT IT'S NOT USABLE.
BECAUSE I'M NOT ABLE TO NAVIGATE IT.
>> DO YOU THINK POSSIBLY LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, WERE YOU
TALKING ABOUT IN DESIGN?
>> RIGHT.
IF YOU TAKE A FILE FROM IN DESIGN AND YOU CREATE A
P.D.F., IF YOU SET YOUR IN DESIGN UP CORRECTLY WITH THE
HEADINGS AND THEN YOU CREATE A P.D.F., YOU CAN EXPORT
THAT P.D.F. TO TEXT ONLY.
>> YOU COULD ALSO EXPORT IT FROM IN DESIGN TO A WORD
DOCUMENT AND ASK IT TO RETAIN THE STYLES.
AND POSSIBLY, IF YOU NAMED THE STYLES LIKE HEADING 1,
HEADING 2, WE DO A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH, IF YOU NAMED
IT THE WORD FILE.
>> Collette: YOU WOULD PROBABLY LOSE YOUR IN DESIGN
FORMATTING.
YOU KNOW, IN DESIGN'S A MUCH BETTER LAYOUT PROGRAM.
>> IT'S NOT GOING TO LOOK PRETTY.
BUT IF IT MAINTAINS THE STYLES.
>> THE TEXT STYLES BECAUSE YOU CAN GO BETWEEN THE TWO.
>> Collette: YOUR TEXT STYLES WOULD BE SAVED BUT
YOU'D HAVE TO REFORMAT THE PRETTINESS, IF THAT'S YOUR
GOAL.
WE JUST RECOMMEND PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY COLUMNS, WE JUST
RECOMMEND PEOPLE USE ONE COLUMN EVERYTHING ANYWAY.
IF YOU'RE ON THE WEB, WE ALL KNOW, DOCUMENTS THAT ARE
THREE COLUMN ON THE WEB, WE'RE TRYING TO NAVIGATE, WE
HAVE TO READ, SCROLL DOWN, SCROLL BACK UP, READ, SCROLL
DOWN, SCROLL BACK UP, READ, SCROLL BACK DOWN.
WE PREFER OUR AGENCY JUST USES ONE COLUMN ANYWAY, SO
THAT HELPS THAT IN DESIGN PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO
READ ACROSS COLUMNS.
>> Jamie: I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT C.S.4, ADOBE HAS UPDATED JUST RECENTLY TO C.S.5.
SO, I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY USED C.S.5, SO, I CAN'T SAY IF
THEY FIXED THE PROBLEM, BUT THEY HAVE JUST POSTED THE
INFORMATION -- THEY HAVEN'T YET UPDATED, UNFORTUNATELY,
BUT YOU CAN FIND A FEW HELP FILES ON THE INTERNET ABOUT
IT.
>> Collette: AND ON USING -- I'M USING C.S.5, I'M
STILL HAVING THE SAME ISSUES.
>> Jamie: THANK YOU.
>> Tanya: ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
ALL RIGHT.
YES.
>> ON THE TOPIC OF EXPORTING, WERE YOU EXPORTING THE
WORD DOCUMENT, P.D.F., THERE'S A PLUG IN THAT COMES
WITH MICROSOFT THAT ALLOWS YOU TO EXPORT TO P.D.F. OR
THERE'S ONE FOR ADOBE PRINTER.
WHICH DO YOU RECOMMEND?
>> Collette: RIGHT.
I DON'T RECOMMEND YOU MAKING ANY P.D.F. DOCUMENT OUT OF
ANYTHING UNLESS YOU HAVE ADOBE PRO OR ADOBE STANDARD.
IF YOU'RE JUST USING THE PRINT TO P.D.F., IT DOES NOT
CREATE AN ACCESSIBLE P.D.F.
IT DOESN'T BRING OVER ALL THE HEADINGS, IT DOESN'T
CHANGE YOUR LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH, IT DOESN'T ALLOW ME TO
MANIPULATE.
WE HAVE QUITE A NUMBER OF LICENSES IN OUR AGENCY OF
STANDARD AND PRO.
AND WE DON'T PUT ANYTHING ON THE WEB THAT HASN'T BEEN
CREATED BY MYSELF OR MY CO-WORKER BECAUSE WE HAVE THE
TOOLS AND WE HAVE THE -- THERE'S MORE SETTINGS -- WHEN
YOU CREATE A WORD DOCUMENT, THERE'S MORE SETTINGS IN
ADOBE THAT YOU HAVE TO SET, TOO, TO CREATE THAT
ACCESSIBLE DOCUMENT.
JUST PRINTING IT TO A P.D.F. DOESN'T MAKE AN ACCESSIBLE
DOCUMENT.
YOU NEED TO OPEN UP STANDARD OR PRO, MAKE ADDITIONAL
CHANGES IN YOUR PREFERENCES, THAT ALLOW IT TO DO IT.
SO, WE -- THE PLUG-IN -- ONE SECOND, JAMIE -- THE
PLUG-IN, WORD HAS A PLUG-IN THAT YOU CAN NOW DOWNLOAD.
AND I HAVEN'T USED THAT PLUG-IN.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW WELL THAT WORKS.
ADOBE ITSELF RECOMMENDS THAT YOU JUST USE STANDARD OR
PRO ALSO BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS ON
THOSE SETTINGS.
YUP, JAIMIE.
>> Jamie: YUP, THIS IS JAMIE.
I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THE PRINT TO P.D.F. IS TOTALLY
NOT -- TOTALLY NOT ACCESSIBLE, BUT THE ACTUAL -- THE
ACTUAL, FOR 2007 PLUG-IN TO MAKE ACCESSIBLE DOCUMENTS
IS REASONABLE IF YOU HAVE DONE ABSOLUTELY PERFECT ONE
COLUMN, YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANY MODIFICATION OF THE
STYLES, JUST DEFAULT STUFF, AND IT'S MUCH BETTER
THAN -- PRINT TO P.D.F., MUCH BETTER, DON'T GET ME
WRONG, AND IT IS FREE.
BUT YOU DEFINITELY WANT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.
>> Collette: WORD 2010 IS ALSO COMING OUT, AND THEY
CLAIM THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE MORE ACCESSIBLE ALSO.
I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO USE WORD 2010 YET, BUT I
WOULD IMAGINE THEY'RE GOING TO BE BETTER.
I DON'T KNOW TO WHAT LEVEL.
>> WE TESTED IT A LITTLE BIT AND, ACTUALLY, THERE ARE
SOME PROBLEMS WITH CREATING P.D.F.s.
IF YOU DO IT ONE WAY, TO PRINT, WHERE YOU WANT A REALLY
LARGE DOCUMENT, IT WON'T TAG IT.
IF YOU DO IT ANOTHER WAY TO PUT IT ON THE WEB, IT WILL.
SO, I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CREATE TWO
SEPARATE DOCUMENTS IF THEY'RE GOING TO PUBLISH AND
PRINT.
AND THEY'RE FIGHTING IT OUT BETWEEN ACROBAT AND
MICROSOFT RIGHT NOW.
>> Collette: SO 2012.
[ Laughter ]
>> Tanya: OKAY.
GREAT.
SO, ARE WE READY TO MOVE ON FROM STYLES?
ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
STYLES ARE REALLY LIKE THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS, SO
THOSE ARE EXCELLENT QUESTIONS.
I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
I'M SO GLAD THAT WE HAVE CART SERVICES HERE TO CAPTURE
THE QUESTIONS AND THE ANSWERS.
THAT'S REALLY GREAT.
OKAY.
SO, PRINCIPLE 3, PRETTY SIMPLE.
DON'T RELY ON COLOR TO CONVEY MEANING.
CONVEY MEANING.
AVOID COLOR TEXT TO SIGNAL IMPORTANCE.
PEOPLE, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH COLOR BLINDNESS, WILL
NOT KNOW WHAT TEXT IS IMPORTANT IF IT IS ONLY INDICATED
BY COLOR TEXT.
I BET SOME PEOPLE IN THE ROOM PROBABLY SOMETIMES
HIGHLIGHT -- OR NOT HIGHLIGHT -- BUT COLOR A CERTAIN
SENTENCE THAT'S REQUIRED TO DO THIS IN RED AND PUT AN
ASTERISK BY IT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
DO YOU GUYS DO THAT?
>> Collette: BUT THAT'S OKAY, AS LONG AS YOU'VE GOT
THE ASTERISK SOMEWHERE ON THE DOCUMENT YOU'VE SAID,
FIELDS WITH AN ASTERISK ARE MANDATORY BECAUSE JAWS WILL
READ THE ASTERISK.
AND IT'S OKAY TO COLOR IT AS LONG AS YOU SAY, IMPORTANT
NEWS, AS LONG AS -- AND IT CAN BE COLORED, TOO, AS LONG
AS IT SAYS IMPORTANT NEWS.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
>> Tanya: DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
>> SO IS THAT AN ALT TEXT THING OR IS THAT SOMETHING
DIFFERENT?
>> Tanya: NOT AT ALL.
IT'S BASICALLY, DON'T -- IF YOU HAVE JUST REGULAR
TEXT -- HAVE YOU EVER PRINTED OFF SOMETHING WHERE YOU
COLORED THE TEXT A CERTAIN COLOR BUT IT COMES OUT A
BLACK BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY PRINT IN BLACK AND WHITE?
YOU KNOW -- YOU'RE LIKE, OH, OKAY, THAT SENTENCE WAS
SUPPOSED TO BE PURPLE BUT IT CAME OUT BLACK ON THE
PRINTER.
THAT'S THE SAME EXACT CONCEPT WITH, FOR EXAMPLE,
SOMEBODY WITH COLOR BLINDNESS.
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?
YOU CAN USE THE COLOR -- HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THAT THAT
CERTAIN SENTENCE IS MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN THE REST OF
THEM?
IT'S KIND OF THAT EMPHASIS, AGAIN.
IF YOU PUT AN ASTERISK -- AND YOU CAN ALSO COLOR IT,
BUT YOU NEED TO INDICATE THAT IT'S -- YOU NEED
REDUNDANCY IN THAT SENTENCE.
YOU CAN COLOR IT FOR A VISUAL PERSON BUT ALSO HAVE TO
HAVE SOME OTHER TYPE OF INDICATION VIA AN ASTERISK OR
SAYING, THIS IS IMPORTANT, OR REQUIRED, SOMETHING LIKE
THAT THAT SOMEONE NONVISUALLY CAN UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S
IMPORTANT.
>> Collette: LIKE A FORM.
WE'VE ALL SEEN FORMS THAT SAY, FILL OUT ALL THE FIELDS
THAT ARE COLORED RED.
WELL, IF I CAN'T -- IF I'M COLOR BLIND OR I'M USING
JAWS, HOW DO I KNOW WHICH ONES ARE RED?
THAT'S KIND OF THE SIGNIFICANCE THERE.
>> Tanya: SEEMS PRETTY BASIC, RIGHT?
I DON'T KNOW WHY, JUST FORGET TO THINK ABOUT THESE
THINGS.
PRINCIPLE 4, JAMIE REALLY TALKED ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT
THIS WAS FOR HER IN HER TOP THREE.
USE ALT TEXT TO EXPLAIN INFORMATION IN IMAGES,
PICTURES, CHARTS OR GRAPHS.
HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE ROOM USE ALT TEXT BEFORE?
SO, ALMOST EVERYBODY.
SO PRETTY MUCH KNOW -- SO, ONE QUESTION THAT COMES
ACROSS WHEN THE DISCUSSION OF ALT TEXT COMES UP IS,
WELL, WHAT SHOULD I WRITE?
OR HOW LONG SHOULD IT BE?
OR HOW SHORT?
YOU KNOW.
WHAT SHOULD IT SAY?
AND I THINK THAT IT DEPENDS ON THE PURPOSE OF THE
PICTURE AND THE TEXT SURROUNDING THE PICTURE.
AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE SORT OF AN ART IN A SENSE OF THE
BALANCE OF HOW MUCH INFORMATION YOU PUT AND, OF COURSE,
OF THE -- THE PURPOSE IS TO -- WELL, YOU MUST REALLY
HAVE IT OTHERWISE WHOEVER IS USING A SCREEN READER HAS
NO CLUE WHAT KIND OF IMAGE IT IS.
I MEAN, IS IT AN IMPORTANT IMAGE OR IS IT LIKE A
SCANNED P.D.F. THAT COMES OUT AS AN IMAGE THAT IS
CRITICAL NOTICE TO ALL STAFF IN THE AGENCY EFFECTIVE
IMMEDIATELY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
YOU KNOW, HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF IT WAS JUST THIS
FRIVOLOUS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, IMAGE OF A PICTURE OF A BALL
VERSUS A VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENT?
I MEAN, I THINK IN THE SCREEN READER, IT COMES ACROSS
THE SAME EXACT WAY IF THERE'S NO ALT TEXT.
QUESTION.
>> YEAH.
WE'VE BEEN USING A BLANK WHEN IT DOESN'T, SAY IT'S A
PICTURE OF A FLOWER, JUST ONE SPACE BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN
TOLD THAT THAT WILL -- THE SCREEN READER WILL THEN SKIP
IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WHO WANTS TO
READ PICTURE OF FLOWER, IS THAT CORRECT OR NOT?
>> Tanya: KEN, COME UP.
JUST WANT TO ASK KEN.
>> Ken: AS FAR AS BEING EXPEDIENT, THAT'S FINE, IF
THAT'S WHAT YOUR PURPOSE IS, BUT THE LAW SAYS THAT
THINGS NEED TO BE EQUALLY ACCESSIBLE.
AND BY YOU CREATING A BLANK IN THAT SPACE FOR ME,
THAT'S NOT MAKING IT EQUAL FOR ME.
I SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THE SAME THING THAT ANYBODY
ELSE GETS.
>> WELL, THE REASONING IS THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO
HEAR -- YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO HEAR A BUNCH OF GRAPHIC OF
A LITTLE GIRL.
>> Ken: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE REASON IS.
I UNDERSTAND THE REASON, I UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC.
BUT I WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S ON THAT PAGE.
JUST LIKE A SIGHTED PERSON SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT'S
ON THAT PAGE.
LET ME MAKE THE DECISION THAT IT'S A REDUNDANCY OR IT'S
A -- A BORING THING.
THAT'S NOT A DECISION FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO MAKE ABOUT
ME.
SO, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS WHATEVER IS THERE.
>> OKAY.
THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING BECAUSE SOMEBODY TOLD US THAT
THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD DO, THAT THEN THE REARED, YOU
KNOW, THE SCREEN READER WOULD JUST SKIP IT.
THAT'S INCORRECT?
>> Ken: YEAH.
AND ORIGINALLY, THERE WERE A LOT OF -- WHEN WE FIRST
STARTED ACCESSIBILITY AWARENESS, A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE
MAKING ALTERNATE WEBSITES THAT WERE TEXT ONLY, SO IF
YOU WERE VISUALLY IMPAIRED AND YOU JUST WANTED A TEXT
VERSION OF THE SAME SITE PRESS HERE AT THE TOP OF THE
PAGE, THOSE ARE NOT EQUALLY ACCESSIBLE.
I MEAN, THEY DON'T -- THEY DON'T PROVIDE THE SAME EQUAL
INFORMATION, THE SAME PROCESS OF INFORMATION TO ME THAN
THEY DO TO ANYBODY ELSE.
SO, REMOVING ALL OF THE PICTURES REMOVES IMAGES AND
PIECES OF THAT CONTENT THAT SOMEBODY ELSE GETS AND WHY
SHOULD I HAVE A STRIPPED-DOWN VERSION OF THAT SITE JUST
BECAUSE IT'S EASIER FOR MY MACHINE TO READ OR IT'S LESS
CUMBERSOME?
THAT'S A DECISION I NEED TO MAKE.
BUT IF I NEED -- BUT I NEED TO BE GIVEN THAT
INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT KIND OF A DECISION
ANYWAY.
SO, YOUR FALL-BACK CHOICE SHOULD ALWAYS BE, IF IT'S
THERE, IT NEEDS TO BE THERE FOR EVERYBODY.
OKAY?
>> THANK YOU.
>> Ken: IN REGARDS TO HOW DO YOU CREATE THE PROPER
ALT TAG FOR SOMETHING, LIKE TANYA SAID, IT REALLY IS AN
ART.
AND YOU GET BETTER WITH TIME, BUT ONE THING THAT I
ALWAYS SUGGEST PEOPLE DO IS LOOK AT THAT ALT TAG AND
GIVE IT -- READ IT TO SOMEBODY, AND GIVE THEM SOME
CHOICES OF WHAT THAT MEANS TO THEM.
ASK THEM, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?
HAVE THEM DESCRIBE THAT.
AND IF THEY CAN DESCRIBE THE ITEM THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO
DESCRIBE, THEN IT'S A PRETTY GOOD ALT TAG.
BUT IF THEY CAN'T, THEN IT'S NOT.
THE THING THAT AGGRAVATES ME NO END IS TO GET SOMETHING
THAT SAYS IT'S A PICTURE OF A MAN.
OKAY.
IT TELLS ME SOMETHING, BUT IT DOESN'T TELL ME ANYTHING
ELSE.
NOW, IF IT'S NOT IMPORTANT, WHY IS THE PICTURE EVEN
THERE?
SO THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ASKED.
SO, THERE'S -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOMETHING, AN
IMAGE OR A PICTURE OF SOME TYPE, THEN THE ALT TAG
SHOULD REFLECT ACCURATELY WHAT THAT IS.
OKAY?
>> Tanya: ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
>> Ken: ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
>> CAN I JUST FOLLOW UP, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ON
THAT.
THAT IS, I UNDERSTAND THE MOTIVATION OF PUTTING
SOMETHING IN THAT KIND OF SKIPS WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A
NONNUTRITIVE DESIGN ELEMENT ON A PAGE, OKAY.
AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.
SO, THE QUESTION IS, IF SOMEONE IS PUTTING SOME -- IS
THERE SUPPLEMENTARY CODING, YOUR POINT IS, I SHOULD BE
THE ONE WHO DECIDES WHETHER I LOOK AT THIS IMAGE OR
SKIP IT.
RIGHT?
>> Ken: RIGHT.
>> SO, IN CREATING AN ACCESSIBLE DOCUMENT LIKE THIS, IS
THERE AN UNDERLYING CODING THAT JAWS PICKS UP THAT
GIVES YOU THE OPTION OF LOOKING AT IT OR SKIPPING IT?
>> Ken: YES.
>> THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE
SO THAT THEY COULD BE IMPLEMENTED THEN.
>> Ken: I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COMMAND IS, BUT I DO
KNOW IN JAWS, MAYBE YOU KNOW, JAMIE, BUT THERE IS A
COMMAND TO SKIP IMAGES.
AND -- SO THAT AS I'M READING A PAGE, MY JAWS, IF IT'S
ON AUTOMATIC READ, IT WILL SKIP THAT.
IT DOESN'T SKIP THE ALT TAGS, BUT IT WILL SKIP IMAGE.
>> YEAH, I'M JUST THINKING, YOU KNOW --
>> Collette: IT'S NOT AN ACTUAL CODING.
YOU DON'T NEED TO PUT A CODING IN.
THE CONTROLS WITHIN JAWS, THE JAWS USER CAN --
>> THE INDIVIDUAL USER SETS THAT UP.
>> Ken: THAT'S WHERE I CAN CHOOSE TO BYPASS THAT,
THAT'S MY CHOICE.
>> YEAH.
OKAY.
SO THERE'S THE OVERRIDING THE MACHINE AND THEN YOU
CAN --
>> Ken: RIGHT.
>> SO THE PRESUMPTION, THEN, IS JUST MAKE THE TAG AND
THE INDIVIDUAL USER DECIDES WITH THEIR TECHNOLOGY
WHETHER THEY WANT TO SKIP IT OR NOT.
>> Ken: EXACTLY.
EXACTLY.
>> Jamie: THIS IS JAMIE SPEAKING.
I JUST WANT TO ADD, FOR SOMEONE WHO'S USING SCREEN
MAGNIFICATION AND CAN ONLY SEE PART OF THE PICTURE AT
ONE TIME, THE ALT TEXT CAN BE VERY BENEFICIAL SO THAT
THEY KNOW, CAN GET A BETTER GRIP OF WHAT THIS WHOLE
ENTIRE IMAGE WILL BE EVENTUALLY.
SO THEY CAN CONCEPTUALIZE AND PIECE IT IN THEIR BRAIN
BETTER.
SO, IT'S NOT JUST FOR SCREEN READER USERS THAT ALT TEXT
IS BENEFICIAL.
IT'S VERY BENEFICIAL FOR SCREEN MAGNIFICATION USERS AS
WELL.
>> Ken: GOOD POINT.
THE OTHER THING I DID WANT TO MENTION WAS, IT'S A
REALLY INTERESTING PROCESS THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH,
ESPECIALLY FOR SEASONED JAWS USERS, FOR THE LONGEST
TIME, JAWS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME, AND IT GETS
MORE SOPHISTICATED EVERY YEAR WHEN THE NEW UPDATE COMES
OUT AND THE NEW UPDATE GETS IMPLEMENTED, THERE'S NEW
TOOLS AND NEW SHORTCUTS ALL THE TIME ADDED TO IT.
BUT BECAUSE ACCESSIBILITY WAS NEVER VERY IMPORTANT TO
THE AVERAGE WEB DESIGNER FOR THE LONGEST TIME, NONE OF
OUR SPECIALIZED COMMANDS, LIKE JUMPING FROM HEADER TO
HEADER, NAVIGATING THROUGH A DOCUMENT BY PULLING UP ALL
OF THE LINKS OR ALL OF THE TABLES TOGETHER, THOSE NEVER
WORKED FOR US.
SO, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT USE SCREEN READERS
THAT HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO USE THOSE SHORTCUTS BECAUSE
FOR A LONG TIME THEY NEVER WORKED.
SO, IF YOU USE SOMETHING AND IT NEVER WORKS, AFTER A
WHILE, YOU DON'T USE IT ANYMORE AND THEN YOU FORGET TO
USE IT.
SO, WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS, THERE'S A LOT OF, I DON'T
WANT TO SAY ILLITERATE, BUT A LOT OF POOR JAWS USERS
OUT THERE BECAUSE FOR SO LONG WE COULDN'T USE THE TOOLS
THAT WERE THERE FOR US.
IT DIDN'T WORK.
THEY DIDN'T WORK.
BECAUSE OF THE WAY PEOPLE CREATED INACCESSIBLE SITES
AND INACCESSIBLE DESIGNS.
NOW THAT THERE'S A GREAT EMPHASIS IN MINNESOTA, YOU ARE
GOING TO CREATE SOME OF THE BEST JAWS USERS AND SCREEN
READER USERS AROUND BECAUSE NOW WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE
TO USE ALL THOSE TOOLS THAT ARE THERE FOR US TO USE.
AND, SO, THERE'S GOING TO BE A LEARNING CURVE ON BOTH
SIDES OF THE TABLES, I GUESS, IS MY POINT.
BUT IT'S JUST KIND OF AN INTERESTING CHAIN OF EVENTS
THAT HAS HAPPENED.
PLEASE, THOUGH, KEEP THEM COMING BECAUSE USE ALL THE
TOOLS.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION.
>> Ken: GO AHEAD.
>> IN REGARD TO WEB PAGES AND ALT TEXT, THE CODING FOR
ALT TEXT ALLOWS US TO DESCRIBE PICTURE FOR IMAGES, FILE
WITH IMAGES, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CASCADING STYLE SHEET
THAT ALLOWS YOU TO ADD IMAGES IN THE BACKGROUND, THE
DIVIDER, OR DIV, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE ALT TEXT IN THERE.
I'M WONDERING, SHOULD WE DESCRIBE THE BACKGROUND, SOME
AREAS?
LIKE THE BACKGROUND OF THE PAGE.
>> YOU MEAN LIKE A WATER MARK SOMEWHERE?
>> YEAH, YEAH.
WATER MARK OR A BOX WITH A BACKGROUND, GRADIENT
BACKGROUND USING IMAGES.
I DON'T SEE ANY PLACE --
>> Collette: THERE'S REALLY NOT -- IN YOUR C.S.S.,
THERE'S REALLY NOT A PLACE FOR YOU TO DO ALT TEXT.
AND WHAT -- I THINK WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS A
BACKGROUND IMAGE THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH A BULLET OR A
HEADER.
>> YEAH.
LET'S SAY A CUSTOM BULLET, A FLOWER BULLET, AND IT'S
CREATED IN A C.S.S. FILE.
AND SHOULD WE MAKE AN ALT TEXT FOR IT?
OR PICTURE OF A FLOWER?
>> Ken: NO.
THOSE COME ACROSS.
THOSE ARE READ LIKE A FLOWER BULLET.
>> Collette: WELL, THIS IS DIFFERENT.
THIS IS A LITTLE -- THIS IS MORE DEVELOPER TECHNOLOGY
VERSUS STANDARD WEB.
I DON'T.
I MEAN, IF IT'S A BULLET AND IT SAYS LIST, IT WILL SAY
LIST.
AND THEY ALREADY KNOW THAT IT'S A LIST FOR A BULLET.
SO THEY ALREADY -- KEN WILL ALREADY KNOW THAT THERE'S A
ROUND BULLET NEXT TO IT OR SOMETHING.
HE WILL ALREADY KNOW THAT IF IT'S A BULLETED LIST,
THERE'S A BULLET IN FRONT OF IT.
FOR BACKGROUND IMAGES, LIKE THAT, YOU REALLY CAN'T DO
TOO MUCH WITH THE ALT TEXT.
BUT IT'S BACKGROUND IMAGES AND THERE'S REALLY NOT MUCH
YOU CAN DO IN THE C.S.S.
AND I THINK C.S.S.3, THOUGH, THE NEW C.S.S., I BELIEVE
HAS THE ABILITY TO ALT TEXT IMAGES IN THE C.S.S.
I BELIEVE.
>> Ken: I KNOW FOR MYSELF, I WOULD SUGGEST, AND
RECOMMEND THAT THOSE TYPES OF THINGS IN THE BACKGROUND,
ALTHOUGH THEY MAY LOOK PRETTY TO PEOPLE THAT ARE
COMPLETELY VISUAL PEOPLE, THEY CAUSE NOTHING BUT
PROBLEMS FOR US VISUALLY-IMPAIRED INDIVIDUALS.
SOMETIMES WE NEED TO -- WE MIGHT HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF
THAT PAGE THAT WE NEED TO SCAN, IT MESSES UP THE
SCANNER, IT MESSES UP A LOT OF THINGS FOR US.
SO, TO JUST -- FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING IT THERE TO MAKE
IT LOOK VISUALLY APPEALING, YOU'VE REALLY GOT TO
DETERMINE FOR YOURSELF HOW IMPORTANT THAT IS.
I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT AMY -- I MEAN, WHAT JAMIE HAS TO
SAY ABOUT BACKGROUND IMAGES UNDERNEATH TEXT AND STUFF.
HOW DOES THAT FOR SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT PARTIAL SIGHT TO
USE?
JAMIE.
>> Jamie: THIS IS JAMIE SPEAKING.
THE BEST PRACTICE FOR THAT IN TERMS OF, THERE'S TWO
DIFFERENT ELEMENTS HERE, YOU HAVE A WEB PAGE WHICH HAS
A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY THAN A WORD DOCUMENT, IN TERMS
OF BACKGROUND IMAGES, YOU DO WANT TO BE CAREFUL, IN
TERMS OF WORD BECAUSE, UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN YOU ADD
SHADING TO DOCUMENT, THAT SHADING IS BACKGROUND
SHADING, I MEAN, LIKE CREATING A BOX AND COLORING IT
ONE COLOR, THAT BOX, ONLY THE TEXT WITHIN THAT BOX
ACTUALLY CONVERTS TO ANOTHER COLOR.
SO, WHAT HAPPENS IS ACTUALLY YOU CAN EXPERIENCE IT AS
WELL IF YOU GO TO CONTROL PANEL, ACCESSIBILITY, GO TO
DISPLAY, THEN USE HIGH CONTRAST, BLACK TEXT, WHITE TEXT
ON BLACK OR GREEN TEXT ON BLACK, YOU CAN ACTUALLY
EXPERIENCE A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT HAPPENS.
YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE TEXT INVERTS, BUT THE BACKGROUND
IMAGE DOES NOT.
THAT COLOR DOES NOT.
SO, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF IFFY THERE.
BUT IN TERMS OF A WEB PAGE, IT'S BEST PRACTICES NOT TO
USE A GRAPHICAL IMAGE BEHIND TEXT BECAUSE IT DOES
BECOME PROBLEMATIC, ESPECIALLY LIKE A PICTURE OF A
FLOWER, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH TEXT OVER IT.
OKAY.
IF -- IT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC IN TERMS OF TRYING TO BE
ABLE TO DISCERN THE ACTUAL LETTERS.
AND ALSO THE BACKGROUND IMAGE DOESN'T CONVERT TO A
DIFFERENT FONT AUTOMATICALLY.
SO, IF YOU HAVE WHITE TEXT ON BLACK -- WELL, LET'S SAY
YOU DESIGN YOUR PAGE, I CAN SAY IGNORE COLORS, IGNORE
FONT SIZES, BUT IF YOU PUT AN IMAGE THERE, IT WILL NOT
IGNORE THAT.
SO, IT'S SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF.
BUT IF YOU CODE IT IN C.S.S., AND I DISABLE C.S.S.,
YOUR PAGE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WORK WITHOUT THE C.S.S., I
WOULD HOPE.
SO, THAT'S ANOTHER WORKAROUND FOR ME TO USE, BUT, LIKE
I SAID, BEST PRACTICES WOULD BE TO MAYBE MAKE A BORDER
AROUND THAT WITH THE VISUAL ELEMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
BUT -- OKAY.
THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY.
>> Tanya: THANKS, JAMIE, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GETTING
CLOSE TO WRAPPING IT UP.
BUT EVEN THOUGH WE HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH EVERYTHING,
AGAIN, LIKE I WILL PROVIDE THE SLIDES AND THEY WILL BE
ON INTERSECT'S WEBSITE.
AND I DO GIVE SOME KIND OF LEVEL OF DETAILS ON HOW TO
DO IT.
AND I AM DIRECTING YOU GUYS TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY
ADMINISTRATION'S GUIDELINES ON HOW TO CREATE ACCESSIBLE
DOCUMENTS AND P.D.F.s BECAUSE THEY'RE -- IT'S VERY
VERY GOOD, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION.
AND IT'S THOROUGH.
I MEAN, IT SAYS -- IT'S AS COMPLETE AS I -- IT'S BEYOND
EVEN WHAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO.
SO I'M REALLY GOING TO DIRECT YOU THERE.
>> DO YOU HAVE THAT ALREADY?
>> Tanya: I DO.
I WANT TO SHOW YOU AN EXAMPLE OF IT.
AND IN THE SLIDES I HAVE THE LINK TO IT.
LET ME JUST GO THROUGH THE REST OF THE PRINCIPLES REAL
QUICK.
USE BUILT-IN FORMATTING FEATURES FOR COLUMNS.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT YOU GUYS KNOW HOW TO USE COLUMNS
IN REGULAR WORD.
BE JUDICIOUS WITH TABLES.
YOU KNOW, USE TABLES FOR WHAT THEY'RE USED FOR.
AND IF YOU CAN JUST DO BULLETED LISTS INSTEAD, DO THAT.
TABLES ARE REALLY FOR DATA.
AND IF YOU DO HAVE A TABLE, MAKE SURE THAT YOU ASSIGN
THE HEADER ROW AT THE TOP OF EACH PAGE.
AND THERE'S SOME INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DO THAT WITHIN
THE SLIDE.
AND THE LOGIC IS JUST SO THAT, I'M SURE YOU'VE ALL
WORKED WITH TABLES, BUT IF YOU GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW,
YOU FORGET WHAT THE TOP ROW WAS, SO, IT'S GOOD TO KEEP
IT GOING.
DON'T RELY ON SOUND.
OF COURSE, CAPTIONING AND TRANSCRIPTS ARE CRITICAL.
YOU USUALLY JUST PUT THE VIDEO IN A POWERPOINT OR ELSE
ON YOUR WEB PAGE.
AND, OF COURSE, JAMIE HAS ALREADY DIRECTED US TO AN
ONLINE CAPTIONING TRAINING THAT THEY'VE PUT TOGETHER
THROUGH THIS PROJECT.
ON OUR WEBSITE, WE'LL HAVE LINKS TO THAT, TOO.
AND I'LL INCLUDE IT ON THE POWERPOINT WHEN I SEND IT TO
YOU GUYS, THE LINK TO THAT.
AND BE CLEAR AND BRIEF.
I THINK YOU KIND OF GET THAT, RIGHT?
USE JUDICIOUS -- BE JUDICIOUS WITH WORD CHOICES, USE
SHORT SENTENCES, BE CONSISTENT.
HAVE YOU GUYS EVER MADE AN R.F.P., I WORKED ON R.F.P.
LAST WEEK, OH, MY GOSH, THAT THING WAS, LIKE, 79 PAGES
AND IT WAS AN UNORGANIZED HODGEPODGE OF INFORMATION.
AND I WAS JUST, LIKE, OH, MY GOSH.
YEAH, DON'T MAKE R.F.P.s THE WAY THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.
[ Laughter ]
I'M WORKING WITH M.M.D. ON THAT ONE, OKAY.
>> I'VE SEEN THAT ONE AS A VENDOR.
>> Tanya: YES.
EXACTLY.
>> YEAH.
>> Tanya: YOU'RE KIND OF LIKE, WHAT DO THEY WANT?
WHERE SHOULD I RESPOND?
>> Ken: YOU SHOULD SEE SOME OF THE FEDERAL R.F.P.s
THAT COME OUT.
>> Tanya: IT'S, LIKE, RIDICULOUS.
TOTALLY.
ANYWAYS.
PRINCIPLE 9, ADD A MEANINGFUL DESCRIPTION TO
HYPERLINKS.
LIKE WE WERE DESCRIBING IN THE -- WHEN WE WERE TALKING
ABOUT SCREEN READERS AND THAT YOU CAN PULL UP ALL THE
LISTS OF THE LINKS, LISTS OF THE TABLES, WELL, MOST
PEOPLE USUALLY SAY CLICK HERE, YOU KNOW, INSERT THE
HYPERLINK, CLICK HERE, WELL, IF I'M PULLING UP A LIST,
AND I'LL SAY CLICK HERE, WHAT GOOD IS THAT?
KEN SAID HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO USE ALL OF HIS TOOLS,
AND TO BE HONEST, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE ALL OF YOUR
TOOLS.
AND, SO, WE CAN BE MORE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT HOW WE LABEL,
YOU KNOW, SAY, IF IT'S, LIKE, IF -- AND, IN FACT, YOU
CAN EVEN ADD A LITTLE -- YOU CAN SAY, LET'S SAY I'M
GOING TO DIRECT YOU TO SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION'S
WEBSITE.
SO, CLICK HERE.
INSTEAD OF SAYING THAT, CLICK SOCIAL SECURITY
ADMINISTRATION'S WEBSITE, AND THEN YOU CAN EVEN ADD A
LITTLE -- AN EXTRA DETAIL THROUGH THE SCREEN TAB, HOME
PAGE, OR CERTAIN PAGE SO, THAT THE PERSON KNOWS WHERE
THEY'RE GOING BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE THE
DOCUMENT, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING.
SO THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
>> Collette: I'M JUST GOING TO ADD ONE THING TO THAT.
WHEN YOU DO YOUR HYPERLINK IN WORD, MAKE SURE YOU PUT
THE HTTP IN FRONT OF OR HTTPS BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T,
WHEN YOU TRANSFER IT FOR P.D.F., IT WILL SHOW UP AS A
HYPERLINK.
BUT IT WON'T SHOW UP AS, IF I DO CONTROL TO SHOW MY
LIST OF LINKS, SO I GO FROM LINK TO LINK TO LINK, IT
WON'T SHOW ON THAT LIST BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE
HTTP AHEAD OF IT.
SO MAKE SURE YOU PUT HTTP IN FRONT OF IT, DON'T PUT DUB
DUB DUB, PUT HTTP IN FRONT OF IT SO IT TRANSFERS.
>> Ken: ONE MORE THING.
WHEN YOU EMBED LINKS THAT DON'T HAVE THE ACTUAL ADDRESS
THAT YOU'RE GOING TO, YOU'VE TAKEN -- IF THERE'S A
PROBLEM, FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND LORD KNOWS THERE
COULD BE MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF PROBLEMS, BUT IF I
CLICK ON SOMETHING THAT I DON'T KNOW WHERE I'M CLICKING
TO, AND I RUN INTO A PROBLEM, I HAVE NO WAY OF GETTING
THERE OR TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHERE I'M SUPPOSED TO GO.
I KNOW THERE'S PROBABLY AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE FOR
MAKING THINGS NICE AND NEAT AND SLICK, BUT IF YOU
REALLY WANT SOMEBODY TO GET SOMEWHERE, THEY NEED THE
ADDRESS.
>> Collette: AND IT ALSO HELPS IF I PRINT THE
DOCUMENT.
IF I PUT -- IF I PUT THE NAME OF THE DOCUMENT AND I
UNDERLINE IT, HYPERLINK, THEN IN PARENTHESIS
AFTERWARDS, PUT THE WHOLE ADDRESS SPELLED OUT, I THINK
THAT'S WHAT KEN MEANS.
>> Ken: YEAH.
>> Collette: BECAUSE IF I PRINTED THE DOCUMENT, USERS
PRINTED THE DOCUMENT, THEY DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THE
WEBSITE, PULL UP THE DOCUMENT JUST TO FIND OUT WHERE
THAT LINK WENT.
IF YOU'VE GOT IT THERE, THEY CAN TYPE IT IN.
>> Tanya: SO YOU PRINTED IT OFF, THEN YOU WENT TO THE
MEETING, IT SAID CLICK HERE ON THE THING, AND IT'S JUST
PAPER, SO, WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GO?
SO YOU'RE SAYING, PUT THE FULL ADDRESS.
>> Collette: PUT THE FULL ADDRESS AFTERWARDS IN
PARENTHESIS.
YOU CAN HOTLINK SOMETHING BUT PUT THE FULL ADDRESS
AFTERWARDS.
>> TALKING ON A WEB PAGE OR WORD?
>> Collette: BOTH.
>> WE WERE JUST TOLD THAT'S AGAINST STANDARDS, THAT WE
SHOULD NOT BE LINKING, YOU KNOW, U.R.L. ADDRESSES AT
ALL.
THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE THEM ON OUR PAGES.
>> Collette: I WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT STANDARD THAT WOULD
BE BREAKING.
IF IT IS, I'D LIKE TO KNOW SO WE STOP DOING IT.
>> IT'S PROBABLY JUST YOUR AGENCY STYLE.
>> Collette: YEAH.
IF IT'S GOING TO AN OUTSIDE ELEMENT, WE ALWAYS LINK IT
TO A NEW PAGE, YOU KNOW, A NEW WINDOW.
>> WELL, IT'S THE WHOLE -- THE LINK SHOULD MATCH THE
LANDING PAGE TEXT.
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE BEEN HAVING US DO IS TAKE OFF
OUR HTTP ADDRESSES AND HAVE JUST THE TEXT, THE LANDING
PAGE, SAY THE TITLE ON THE LANDING PAGE.
>> Collette: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RELATIVE OR LINK?
YOU'RE CORRECT IN WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
THIS IS DIFFERENT.
IF I'M -- IF I HAVE A DOCUMENT LIKE IF I HAVE A
DOCUMENT ABOUT ACCESSIBILITY AND I WANT TO REFERENCE --
ON THE WEB AS CONTENT AS HTML AND I WANT TO REFERENCE
THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION'S WEBSITE, I WANT TO
PUT SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION'S WEBSITE UNDERLINE
AND THEN IN PARENTHESIS AFTERWARDS, PUT IN THE ACTUAL
ADDRESS TO IT.
>> OKAY.
>> Collette: RIGHT.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TALKING IS, THE HTTP, YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT RELATIVE LINKS WITHIN YOUR WEBSITE.
THAT'S A LITTLE -- YOU'RE DOING CORRECT WITH WHAT
THEY'RE TELLING YOU TO DO IN THAT RESPECT.
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS LINKING TO DOCUMENTS OR
LINKING TO OTHER WEBSITES AND STUFF.
MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE WHOLE ADDRESS IN.
>> Tanya: OKAY.
I THINK I WILL JUST PRETTY MUCH PASS UP ON P.D.F. AND
ACCESSIBILITY AND YOU CAN LOOK AT IT IN THE SLIDE
LATER.
AND SOME GENERAL STEPS TO CONVERTING TO P.D.F.
THEY'RE GENERAL, THEY REQUIRE LITTLE STEPS IN BETWEEN
AND A LOT IN BETWEEN.
AND, OF COURSE, I COULD COME NEXT MEETING IF YOU GUYS
WANT ME TO COME BACK AND, OF COURSE, I'M GOING TO BRING
MY EXPERTS HERE.
AND WE CAN GO OVER P.D.F. ISSUES AND, YOU KNOW, HOW
TOs AND WHATNOT, MAYBE IN BETWEEN TIME COLLECT SOME
INFORMATION FOR YOU GUYS, MAYBE THROUGH A SURVEY OF
WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE QUESTIONS ON AND PREPARE.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD USE OF TIME, IF YOU GUYS
WANT US TO COME BACK ON THAT.
AND, LIKE I SAID, I THINK THE SOCIAL SECURITY
ADMINISTRATION IS -- THEY HAVE AN EXCELLENT RESOURCE.
I MEAN, IT'S LIKE 100 PAGES.
BUT IT HAS EVERYTHING IN HOW TO DO IT.
HOW TO TEST IT.
>> Ken: CAN I JUST ADD ONE MORE?
JUST ONE QUICK THING.
WITH P.D.F.s, WHENEVER YOU MAKE P.D.F.s, THEY NEED
TO BE ACCESSIBLE.
BUT IF YOU HAVE ONLY A P.D.F., AND YOU'RE REFERRING TO
A DOCUMENT, YOU ALSO NEED A TEXT-BASED DOCUMENT IN
ORDER TO BE COMPLETELY COMPLIANT.
>> CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THAT, KEN?
>> Ken: YEAH.
>> SO IF YOU REALLY HAVE TRULY MADE A FULLY ACCESSIBLE
P.D.F. DOCUMENT, WHY DO YOU NEED THAT?
>> Ken: BECAUSE I MIGHT BE USING AN ASSISTIVE DEVICE
THAT DOESN'T -- I CANNOT USE P.D.F.s, PERIOD.
SO I HAVE NO WAY --
>> LIKE THAT BRAILLE DEVICE YOU SHOWED US EARLIER?
>> Ken: EXACTLY.
AND THAT'S JUST ONE -- I MEAN, THERE ARE TONS OF
ACCESSIBLE DEVICES THAT MOST PEOPLE USE THAT DON'T HAVE
ANY MEANS OF OPENING A P.D.F.
IT'S A PROPRIETARY PIECE OF SOFTWARE.
AND, SO, UNLESS YOU HAVE THE TOOL TO BE ABLE TO OPEN IT
UP, YOU CAN'T OPEN IT.
SO, YOU NEED -- THAT'S WHY THE LAW, THE FEDERAL LAW,
A.D.A., SAYS, YOU MUST HAVE A TEXT-BASED DOCUMENT.
NOW, IF YOU USE ONLY A TEXT-BASED DOCUMENT, THAT'S ALL
YOU NEED.
BUT IF YOU USE P.D.F.s, IT HAS TO BE ACCESSIBLE
P.D.F. AND YOU NEED AN ACCESSIBLE TEXT-BASED DOCUMENT.
>> THIS IS REALLY A WHOLE OTHER CAN OF WORMS.
>> Ken: IT IS, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE LAW SAYS.
>> Collette: M.M.B. PUTS EVERYTHING UP IN BOTH NATIVE
FORMAT AND P.D.F. FORM.
>> Ken: IF YOU LOOK AT THE A.D.A. WEBSITE OR THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WEBSITE, THEY HAVE BOTH AS WELL,
THEY HAVE P.D.F.s AND WORD DOCUMENTS FOR EVERY LINK
DOCUMENT.
THEY HAVE ONE TO EACH.
THAT'S WHAT THE LAW SAYS.
>> Tanya: SO, JED, YOU JUST SAID THAT OPENS UP A CAN
OF WORMS, THAT'S WHY I'M SO GLAD YOU'RE WORKING WITH ME
ON OUR TEAM, I INVITE ALL YOU GUYS TO HELP US FIGURE
OUT HOW TO APPROACH -- THE BEST WAY FOR AGENCIES TO
APPROACH ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE BECAUSE WE NEED TO MOVE
FORWARD WITH IT, BUT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THE
BEST STRATEGIES TO DO THAT.
YES.
QUESTIONS.
MOLLY.
MOLLY:  THIS IS JUST A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT.
YOU AND I HAD TALKED MAYBE A MONTH AGO OR SO WHEN WE
WERE GETTING ALL OF THIS READY THAT YOU HAD POTENTIALLY
SOME MORE INFORMATION THAT WE COULD MAYBE DO ANOTHER
INTERSECT MEETING WITH.
AND, SO, WE'RE CONSIDERING THAT FOR OUR FEBRUARY
9th MEETING, EVERYONE.
JUST WANT TO KIND OF GIVE YOU A HEADS-UP ON THAT.
TANYA, YOU AND I CAN TALK ABOUT THAT AND SEE WHAT THAT
WOULD ENTAIL FOR YOU.
>> Tanya: I WOULD DEFINITELY COME.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS TALKING TO YOU ABOUT, IF YOU WANT US
TO COME THE NEXT ONE OR A DIFFERENT ONE, TO MAYBE EVEN
KIND OF SURVEY YOU GUYS AND DO A QUICK SURVEY TO GET
WHAT YOUR MAIN QUESTIONS ARE SO WE CAN PREPARE AND
FOCUS THE DISCUSSION AROUND THAT.
SPECIFICALLY PROBABLY ON THE TOPIC OF P.D.F.
YES.
>> I THINK TO THAT END, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MIGHT BE
QUITE USEFUL IS IN OUR AGENCY, FOR INSTANCE, WE CREATE,
IN ANY GIVEN YEAR, THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS THAT
ARE AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE.
THOSE ARE NOT CREATED BY OUR WEB TEAM.
THEY ARE NOT MANAGED BY OUR WEB TEAM.
AND IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR OUR WEB TEAM TO MAKE
THOSE DOCUMENTS ACCESSIBLE.
I MEAN, JUST THE VOLUME OF IT VERSUS THE AMOUNT OF
STAFF THAT WE HAVE.
AND, SO, FROM A PROCESS STANDPOINT, I THINK AS OUR
AGENCIES GO ALONG HERE, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT WE WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTED IN UNDERSTANDING, IS
HOW AGENCIES ARE GOING TO SET UP THE PROCESS TO TRAIN
THEIR ADMIN STAFF TO CREATE ACCESSIBLE DOCUMENTS FROM
THE FIRST -- FROM THE GET-GO, TO PROVIDE -- SO, TO
PROVIDE THEM THE TRAINING, PROVIDE THEM THE TOOLS SO --
AND A UNIFORM SET OF UNDERSTOOD REGULATIONS OR A
UNIFORM SET OF TEMPLATES FOR DOING IT, SO THAT, YOU
KNOW, WHERE WORD DOCS ARE CONCERNED, YOU KNOW, ANY
DOCUMENT GENERATED BY A STATE AGENCY IS COMING FROM AN
ADMIN STAFF THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN THE SAME TOOLS, THE
SAME TRAINING, THE SAME UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO DO IT,
THE SAME GUIDELINES, SO BY THE TIME IT MOVES TO A
WEBSITE SOMEPLACE WHERE IT HAS TO BE DELIVERED TO
SOMEBODY, IT'S ALREADY ACCESSIBLE BECAUSE I THINK
WITHOUT THAT, EVEN IN OUR OWN AGENCY TO COMPLY EVEN
SCANTILY WITH THE LAW WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE.
>> Tanya: EVERYBODY IS DEALING WITH THAT DILEMMA.
>> FROM AN O.E.T. STANDPOINT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU
LOOK AT NOT JUST THE TECHNOLOGY OF THIS BUT THE
LOGISTICS OF ACTUALLY GETTING IT DONE.
>> Tanya: OF COURSE, YUP.
I WAS ALLUDING TO THAT AT THE BEGINNING, TALKING ABOUT
AGENCY LEVEL IMPLEMENTATION.
AT THE AGENCY LEVEL, BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY BEEN DOING A
LOT OF WORK ON FIGURING OUT WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE, NOW
THIS WHOLE OTHER WORK OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO TRANSITION
TOWARDS.
AND THAT REQUIRES AN ASSESSMENT, THAT REQUIRES AN
UNDERSTANDING OF HOW IT APPLIES TO YOUR ENTIRE
ORGANIZATION, IT REQUIRES IDENTIFICATION OF THE
TRAINING NEEDS, IT REQUIRES A PRIORITIZATION OF WHAT
CAN BE DONE IN THE SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM AND WHAT
CAN'T BE DONE AT ALL.
UNTIL THE NEXT ROUND OF SOMETHING, YOU KNOW.
AND WHEN I SAY THIS, I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT
DOCUMENTS.
ALTHOUGH DOCUMENTS AND P.D.F.s, THOSE ARE THE BIG
ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM AND THOSE ARE THE HUGE -- RIGHT
NOW EVERY AGENCY IS OUT OF COMPLIANCE SAY THEY HAVE TO
BE COMPLIANT TODAY, YOU KNOW.
AND, SO, THE REALITY IS THAT WE ARE MOVING FORWARD AND
THERE NEEDS TO BE A WINDOW OF TRANSITION AND SOME KIND
OF, LIKE, I CAN SEE MYSELF AS COMING OUT WITH OTHERS TO
HELP CONSULT AGENCIES ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR OWN
INTERNAL PLAN, WHAT ARE THEIR INTERNAL PROCESSES, WHERE
DO THEY DRAW LINES, YOU KNOW, HOW DO THEY PRIORITIZE,
IS IT WEB FIRST OR WHAT.
>> BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED BECAUSE OTHERWISE
WE'RE GOING TO SPEND ALL OF OUR TIME READING THAT SAME
DOCUMENT IN HOWEVER MANY STATE AGENCIES AND WE'RE GOING
TO KEEP DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND --
>> Ken: YOU NEED A ROAD MAP.
>> EXACTLY.
WE NEED A LEADER IN THIS.
>> Tanya: AND, SO, I'VE BEEN CONVENING SOME
INDIVIDUALS RIGHT NOW.
LIKE I SAY, PLEASE JOIN ON BECAUSE THE MORE WE
UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH AND THE MORE WE CAN
DO TO HELP EACH OTHER FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO MOVE
FORWARD, AND WITHOUT -- NOT FEELING TONS OF PRESSURE
ABOUT THE RISK, YOU KNOW, JUST BEING REALISTIC ABOUT
WHAT WE CAN DO AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO GOING FORWARD AND
PUTTING TOGETHER SOME TYPE OF STEPS AND TIMELINE TO DO
THAT AND THEN EVERYBODY KNOWS, LIKE KEN SAID, THAT
WOULD BE A ROAD MAP.
I THINK THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH IT.
I THINK IT'S -- OF COURSE, THAT'S A NECESSARY NEXT
STEP.
LIKE I SAID, THIS IS A PROCESS.
THIS PRESENTATION IS THE BEGINNING OF A PROCESS.
THERE WILL BE SOME TRAININGS AND WE'RE WORKING ON THAT.
WE'RE GOING TO LEARN MORE.
AND I CAN CONTINUE TO LEARN MORE AND MORE AND MORE
ABOUT THESE LITTLE NUANCES AND TECHNOLOGY AND LITTLE
GLITCHES ANYWAYS.
IT IS WHAT IT IS.
AND AGENCIES WILL NEED TO DEVELOP PLANS AND POLICIES ON
HOW THEY WILL IMPLEMENT THE DOCUMENT ACCESSIBILITY.
AND THE WEBSITE AND APPLICATIONS AND EVERYTHING, TOO.
KEN.
>> Ken: ONE LAST WORD HERE.
I THINK YOU GUYS NEED TO ALSO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME
AND CONGRATULATE YOURSELF AND BE PROUD OF THE
ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT YOU HAVE MADE.
YOU GUYS HAVE MADE SOME INCREDIBLE CHANGES, SOME --
YOU'VE EMBRACED THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN THRUST UPON
YOU, AND YOU'VE BEEN, INSTEAD OF FIGHTING THEM, YOU'VE
BEEN SAYING, HOW DO WE DO THIS?
AND YOU'VE BEEN WILLINGLY WANTING TO LEARN HOW TO DO
THAT.
AND I REALLY APPLAUD YOU FOR THAT.
AND I WANT YOU TO FEEL PROUD OF THAT.
YOU GUYS HAVE REALLY DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB.
AND I THINK IT'S STARTING TO REALLY SHOW UP IN A LOT OF
OUR DAY-TO-DAY WORK THAT I ENCOUNTER, AND I'M STARTING
TO HEAR IT FROM COLLEAGUES FROM OTHER STATES THAT THEY
ARE SO FAR BEHIND US THAT THEY ENVY US BECAUSE OF WHAT
SOME OF THE PIECES WE HAVE IN PLACE THAT ARE ONLY GOING
TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.
SO, THANK YOU FOR EMBRACING THE CHANGES AND MOVING
FORWARD.
AND CELEBRATE THAT.
YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK.
>> Collette: AND WE ARE THE ONLY STATE RIGHT NOW
DOING THIS.
>> Tanya: WHAT'S THAT, MOLLY?
>> I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO YOU, TANYA, OF
COURSE, AND KEN AND JAMIE AND COLLETTE, TOO, WE REALLY
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
>> Collette: AND I HAVE BUSINESS CARDS, IF ANYBODY
WANTS -- HAS QUESTIONS, THEY CAN CONTACT ME.
I HAVE TO TELL YOU, IF I'M BUSY, I WON'T HELP.
[ Laughter ]
BUT I'M NEVER BUSY.
>> Tanya: I'VE BEEN SENDING EVERYBODY TO COLLETTE.
EVEN IN OUR AGENCY, WE'RE SENDING PEOPLE TO COLLETTE.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST A REALITY.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW UNTIL YOU KNOW OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION?
>> NO.
I'M JUST KIND OF PONDERING WHAT THEY WERE SAYING AND
THINKING ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IT IS, BECAUSE THIS IS A
STATEWIDE DIRECTIVE THAT WE HAVE A STATEWIDE
INFRASTRUCTURE RATHER THAN OUR AGENCY, YOU KNOW,
SCRAMBLING TO DO OUR THING, AND THIS OTHER AGENCY.
I MEAN, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FROM A RESOURCE
STANDPOINT TO HAVE EVERYBODY KIND OF DOING THAT --
 [ INAUDIBLE ]
OBVIOUSLY NOT EVERYBODY CAN GO TO COLLETTE.
>> Tanya: NO, AND THEY WON'T.
BUT IT'S A PROCESS.
>> IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THE PROCESS
IN PLACE BEFORE THEY MADE THE POLICY.
>> Tanya: THEY DON'T.
BECAUSE IT'S ALL AT THE AGENCY LEVEL.
EVERY AGENCY DOES THINGS DIFFERENTLY AND THEY HAVE
DIFFERENT STRUCTURE.